***Official*** England in India

[TheEpic]

In ODIs, he needs to score runs for England when they're collapsing, not add to the woes by getting knocked over pathetically.

http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005/OD_TOURNEYS/NWS/SCORECARDS/AUS_ENG_NWS_ODI-FINAL_02JUL2005.html

Now I'm aware that was 9 months ago, but it proves that Jones can do this, but hasn't done it often enough obviously.

Think of Prior as a pure batsman because that's his role right now.

If Prior is to be picked as a pure batsman, then how exactly does he deserve this? An average of 24 in List A cricket? 37 in FC cricket? These frankly are not good enough to be opening for England in any form, and if we're considering him as a pure batsman then there's no way he should even be considered. He is a back-up for Jones and that is all.

 

[open365]

The situations with keepers atm is very confusing.

Prior is only there because Tres is unavalible, but he can also keep and is a better batsman than Jones, so is there a case for Prior to replace Jones completely?

Then Read comes into the situation, defintely the better keeper, but Jones hasn't made any keeping errors in ODIs, so should he be included on merit as a better batsman?

Read's last innings in ODIs was a match winner, and he has improved massively since he last played for England, however, Fletcher is not a fan of Read, and i don't think he will ever get a chance again.

Prior was magnificent last season, averaging 44 in the one day domestic comp and is already playing ODI cricket as a regular batsman so why not give him the gloves and include another batsman in the side? Again, it all comes down to Fletcher, who i belive has driven himself into a hard situation. By giving Jones an extended run, he is clearly showing that the keepers spot is his, and even if Jones comtinues to bat poorly in both forms, i don't think Fletch has the balls to drop him for Prior in the one day arena.

 

[albo97056]

[/QUOTE]
If Prior is to be picked as a pure batsman, then how exactly does he deserve this? An average of 24 in List A cricket? 37 in FC cricket? These frankly are not good enough to be opening for England in any form, and if we're considering him as a pure batsman then there's no way he should even be considered. He is a back-up for Jones and that is all.[/QUOTE]

Prior is a joke. Theres loads of good batsmen out there who deserve a go ahead of him... Why not have cook opening the batting..if hes unlikely to get a game in tests once tres comes bak y not give him a place here.

Plus hoggard should be playing.. his bowling is perfect for those slow pitches.. hes a hundred times better than anderson. I cant believe they think that hes just a test bowler.. in the test series didn't he bowl with the most variety out of anyone... he was hte first to use the cutters and slower balls etc when needed... i just dont understand it!

 

[open365]

If Prior is to be picked as a pure batsman, then how exactly does he deserve this? An average of 24 in List A cricket? 37 in FC cricket? These frankly are not good enough to be opening for England in any form, and if we're considering him as a pure batsman then there's no way he should even be considered. He is a back-up for Jones and that is all.[/QUOTE]

Prior is a joke. Theres loads of good batsmen out there who deserve a go ahead of him... Why not have cook opening the batting..if hes unlikely to get a game in tests once tres comes bak y not give him a place here.

Plus hoggard should be playing.. his bowling is perfect for those slow pitches.. hes a hundred times better than anderson. I cant believe they think that hes just a test bowler.. in the test series didn't he bowl with the most variety out of anyone... he was hte first to use the cutters and slower balls etc when needed... i just dont understand it![/QUOTE]


You've obviously never seen Hoggard in ODIs before, he gets belted everywhere, it's strange, excellent in tests, but his ODI figures and performances are very poor.

 

[albo97056]

You've obviously never seen Hoggard in ODIs before, he gets belted everywhere, it's strange, excellent in tests, but his ODI figures and performances are very poor.

Um that was god knows how many years ago.. i think hes improved since then!
Hes like mark butcher, just theyve got something against them as od players. There is absolutely no way you can say anderson is a better bowler than hoggard.. who gives a d**n whether its od or not.. your best players r your best players.. that simple. Hoggard would NEVER get dropped from tests would he?

 

[albo97056]

Just to add to that he played 4 games in SA last year and none before that since 03

av 32 econ of 5

in sa:

10 ovs...2/35
10 ovrs...2/42
9ov....1/66
9.....0/74

theres a few bad games there but 2 bad games in 3 years hardly screams bvad ODI player! does it? And not a bad average either, considering thats mostly from 5 odd years ago...

 

[open365]

Um that was god knows how many years ago.. i think hes improved since then!
Hes like mark butcher, just theyve got something against them as od players. There is absolutely no way you can say anderson is a better bowler than hoggard.. who gives a d**n whether its od or not.. your best players r your best players.. that simple. Hoggard would NEVER get dropped from tests would he?

Um..his last ODI was last winter against South Africa where he played the whole series.

Not very impressive figures are they?

And,before you say it, Hoggard was bowling better last Winter than he was this one.

 

[albo97056]

Not very impressive figures are they?

And,before you say it, Hoggard was bowling better last Winter than he was this one.

Hoggards bin carrying the attack in india...does anyone aggree?

 

[open365]

Hoggards bin carrying the attack in india...does anyone aggree?

Carrying the attack?

WTF does that mean?

He opened the bowling in South Africa, he's opened the bowling here.

Let me remind you that the England bowlers were very poor in South Africa, Harmison averaged 73, Anderson had that horror game and Freddy was below par.

So, even if that was a fari point, your sill wrong.

 

[open365]

Just to add to that he played 4 games in SA last year and none before that since 03

av 32 econ of 5

in sa:

10 ovs...2/35
10 ovrs...2/42
9ov....1/66
9.....0/74

theres a few bad games there but 2 bad games in 3 years hardly screams bvad ODI player! does it? And not a bad average either, considering thats mostly from 5 odd years ago...

Wrong again, that's his career average and ecomonomy rate(not very good is it). He averaged 43 in South Africa with a higher economy rate.

 

[albo97056]

you wont let up will you.. i know its his career rate.. thts wat i meant
You still wont say whos the better player hoggard or anderson...
thats the real point here..All im saying is a few bad games in sa isnt that important in an overall career.. Hes played about 4 games in 3 years... and hes taken wickets in every innings of the pak and india tours...
I dont understand how he can be kept out of the side...

 

[adharcric]

Hoggard can't be considered a one-day regular because of his poor record in the shorter version, but given the circumstances of the England one-day team, he should be given a trial considering he's bowled well in the tests and is available for selection. Kabir Ali has sprayed the ball around in his later spells and relieved some pressure for the Indian batsmen. I still think Ali is pretty decent and a better bet than Hoggard generally speaking in ODIs, but at the moment England need a boost so that they can win a match and they can risk playing Hoggard to see if he can provide that boost.

 

[open365]

you wont let up will you.. i know its his career rate.. thts wat i meant
You still wont say whos the better player hoggard or anderson...
thats the real point here..All im saying is a few bad games in sa isnt that important in an overall career.. Hes played about 4 games in 3 years... and hes taken wickets in every innings of the pak and india tours...
I dont understand how he can be kept out of the side...

Well Anderson has an average of 25, and an economy rate of 4.78. Both better stats than Hoggard.

Anderson is a better ODI bowler than Hoggard. There's a reason Hoggard isn't in the side, as Neil once said 'he has one legnth, and it usualy ends up in the stands'

 

[albo97056]

Hoggard can't be considered a one-day regular because of his poor record in the shorter version, but given the circumstances of the England one-day team, he should be given a trial considering he's bowled well in the tests and is available for selection. Kabir Ali has sprayed the ball around in his later spells and relieved some pressure for the Indian batsmen. I still think Ali is pretty decent and a better bet than Hoggard generally speaking in ODIs, but at the moment England need a boost so that they can win a match and they can risk playing Hoggard to see if he can provide that boost.

Yeh thats fair enough... there needs to be some expierience in this side.. theres too many young inexpierienced played to cope with such a good batting order like indias.
kabir anderson and plunkett is too many...

 

[albo97056]

Well Anderson has an average of 25, and an economy rate of 4.78. Both better stats than Hoggard.

Anderson is a better ODI bowler than Hoggard. There's a reason Hoggard isn't in the side, as Neil once said 'he has one legnth, and it usualy ends up in the stands'

Yes but hes learnt to bowl those slower balls now and is a much better bowler than he was 3 years ago. He desrves another chance...hes bowled emaculately in tests for the last few years.. what more cud you ask for? He cant inprove on that odi record if he doesnt play...

 

[open365]

Yes but hes learnt to bowl those slower balls now and is a much better bowler than he was 3 years ago. He desrves another chance...hes bowled emaculately in tests for the last few years.. what more cud you ask for? He cant inprove on that odi record if he doesnt play...

What's all this about 3 years ago?

He played a full series last winter and he didn't perform.

Some of us(Fletch included apparently) that he could improve his record even if he was playing.

 

[albo97056]

What's all this about 3 years ago?

He played a full series last winter and he didn't perform.

Some of us(Fletch included apparently) that he could improve his record even if he was playing.

He did well in the first two games.. 2/40 odd then got some tap in the last two.. not a disaster.. it can happen to anyone...thats the only chance hes had in 3 years!
plus hes bin thru the ashes and the pak ind tour this winter where hes bowled excellently..

So you cant talk about his econ or average in odis because that was when he was a different bowler.. hes changed and improved immeasurably since then

 

[PY]

Throw in Ali's supposed (though not shown much) batting talent and I'd probably take him over Hoggy at the moment!

 

[albo97056]

Throw in Ali's supposed (though not shown much) batting talent and I'd probably take him over Hoggy at the moment!

Thats either a joke or a very bad comment....

 

[open365]

He did well in the first two games.. 2/40 odd then got some tap in the last two.. not a disaster.. it can happen to anyone...thats the only chance hes had in 3 years!
plus hes bin thru the ashes and the pak ind tour this winter where hes bowled excellently..

So you cant talk about his econ or average in odis because that was when he was a different bowler.. hes changed and improved immeasurably since then

I can talk about his economy rate and average, why? Because he's still the same Mathew Hoggard. He still bowls the same as he did 3 years ago, he just does it better, this in my veiw, does not quate to one day succes.