***Official*** England in India

[adharcric]

I dont think I have any reason to be happy with Chappell's coaching. We lost the test series in Pakistan, almost lost the series to England @ home. We drew the ODI series with SA. All backwards from our performance under Wright. (we had won against SA @ home, test @home against England and test series in Pak)

He did win the ODI series in Pak and @home against SriLanka, and he does get credit for it, more than he deserves.

So you can arbitrarily claim that the "positive" credit that he gets is more than he deserves and the "negative" credit he gets is less than he deserves? Talk about a load of bull.

Yes, I'm disappointed with Chappell in some regards: a) handling of the Ganguly situation b) poor fitness of Sehwag c) lack of mental preparation for Dhoni as a test newcomer d) Pathan's loss of pace

But he's done plenty good for us as well: a) much improved fielding in the one-day side b) a very good one-day outfit c) a good crop of pace bowlers which India has rarely (dare I say never) had before d) the development of Pathan's all-around ability

The fact of the matter is that neither you nor I really know exactly what should and shouldn't be attributed to Chappell, so we can only judge him on the overall team performance. Before this debacle at Mumbai, the one-day thrashing vs SL, one-day thrashing vs PAK and one-day draw vs RSA clearly outweighed the one-off test defeat to PAK. Now, things are getting dangerous and we should expect Chappell to respond to the crisis. He may not be the greatest diplomat when it comes to handling the Indian press, but who gives a bloody hell about that if he has a cricketing brain. He is not an idiot, I assure you.

 

[chicane]

silentsriker:

very few players consistently perform in pressure situations. and our best player in such a situation played 60 balls for 9 runs and threw it away, knowing fully well the players to come have a different role in the game. wasnt that equally terrible?

pathan, well yes if his poor run continues i support dropping him till he gets back his rythm, especially with rp singh waiting, but not just yet, hes been great with the bat which is not insignificant.

and i dont know what you mean by saying yuvraj has looked out of his depth in tests lately...

they deserve to be criticized, they should be, that should be enough for any player proud to play for his country to pull themselves up. by advocating dropping you are forgetting what the main goal is - whats better for our team.

 

[adharcric]

Right on chicane. You can't just drop players the first few times they make a mistake. That defeats the whole purpose of sports and on a general level of life. You have to see how well they respond and learn from the mistakes. If they can't do that part, then bid farewell surely.

 

[silentstriker]

silentsriker:

very few players consistently perform in pressure situations.

Don't care, you don't play that shot.

and our best player in such a situation played 60 balls for 9 runs and threw it away, knowing fully well the players to come have a different role in the game. wasnt that equally terrible?

No, it wasn't. Dravid has constantly been the match winner, and he didn't play the type of shot Dhoni did.

If he had, I would be here complaining about him.

pathan, well yes if his poor run continues i support dropping him till he gets back his rythm, especially with rp singh waiting, but not just yet, hes been great with the bat which is not insignificant.

If we wanted another batter, we'd pick VVS or Kaif. His job is to bowl first, bat second. 75mph is not new-ball worthy.

and i dont know what you mean by saying yuvraj has looked out of his depth in tests lately...

I mean, I don't know if he is a test quality batsman.

they deserve to be criticized, they should be, that should be enough for any player proud to play for his country to pull themselves up. by advocating dropping you are forgetting what the main goal is - whats better for our team.

What's best for our team is for them to learn responsibility. A couple series of sitting at home watching on TV might just give them that.

 

[silentstriker]

Right on chicane. You can't just drop players the first few times they make a mistake. That defeats the whole purpose of sports and on a general level of life. You have to see how well they respond and learn from the mistakes. If they can't do that part, then bid farewell surely.

Its one thing to make a mistake. Its another to play a shot so atrocious as to defy explanation.

 

[adharcric]

Its one thing to make a mistake. Its another to play a shot so atrocious as to defy explanation.

That is still a mistake. Look, I understand your frustration, I personally wanted to go out there and rape Dhoni when I saw that shot. Just think about it though, we have to give him a chance to prove his mettle right away. Strong individuals pull themselves up strongly, they don't necessarily start off strongly.

 

[chicane]

you are obsessed with that shot man!! not with the end result - every batsman failed. dravid was equally responsible if not more, he failed too.

 

[silentstriker]

That is still a mistake. Look, I understand your frustration, I personally wanted to go out there and rape Dhoni when I saw that shot. Just think about it though, we have to give him a chance to prove his mettle right away. Strong individuals pull themselves up strongly, they don't necessarily start off strongly.

But he did it twice in the space of a couple balls.

 

[adharcric]

I mean, I don't know if he is a test quality batsman.

Well if you don't know something, you usually want to figure it out. He's definitely shown the promise on more than a few occasions recently.

 

[silentstriker]

you are obsessed with that shot man!! not with the end result - every batsman failed. dravid was equally responsible if not more, he failed too.

That shot is the perfect illustration of the failures of the Indian team. That's what happens to all our extravagant shot makers overseas, when they have to face a ball thats moving (see New Zealand tour). If they can't make runs in boundries, they don't know what to do.

 

[adharcric]

But he did it twice in the space of a couple balls.

Fine, he made two mistakes! Still doesn't change the point. Give him a trial and let him prove his mettle.

 

[chicane]

That shot is the perfect illustration of the failures of the Indian team. That's what happens to all our extravagant shot makers overseas, when they have to face a ball thats moving (see New Zealand tour). If they can't make runs in boundries, they don't know what to do.

our flashy btsman have performed overseas. what lets us down is bowling. and thats a bit unfair to dhoni, he does rotate the strike and keep the scoreboard ticking without boundries very well too.

 

[Sanz]

So you can arbitrarily claim that the "positive" credit that he gets is more than he deserves and the "negative" credit he gets is less than he deserves? Talk about a load of bull.

Yes, so far everyone is blaming Dravid for all the decisions, for playing 5 bowlers, for winning the toos and opting to field, for everything, Suddenly Prime Time Greg is in background. So yes, he doesn't share the blame as much he shares the fame.

Yes, I'm disappointed with Chappell in some regards: a) handling of the Ganguly situation b) poor fitness of Sehwag c) lack of mental preparation for Dhoni as a test newcomer d) Pathan's loss of pace

Add - India's collective Batting failure, Indian test fielding, India'a ability to get rid of tail, Dhoni's wicket Keeping.

But he's done plenty good for us as well: a) much improved fielding in the one-day side b) a very good one-day outfit c) a good crop of pace bowlers which India has rarely (dare I say never) had before d) the development of Pathan's all-around ability

On Pathan's allround ability - Pathan was averaging 25 before chappell took over, now he averages 29, so there is some improvement in his batting. But wait, his bowling has been worse, he was averaging 41 before Chappel, now he is averaging 45. So no overall I dont see any improvement and if he continues to bowl like the way he has been, he should be dropped. Check out Pakistan/SriLanka threads, He does get all the credit for our performance in Pakistan and against Sri Lanka, he deserves all the credit for crushing win.

As for India's best ever pace bowlers - Hahahahaha, have heard that one before.

The fact of the matter is that neither you nor I really know exactly what should and shouldn't be attributed to Chappell, so we can only judge him on the overall team performance.

Well then dont make him the Messiah of Indian Cricket, who is going to cure Indian Cricket of all its ills and every good thing that happened to Indian Cricket was because of this Messiah from down under.

Before this debacle at Mumbai, the one-day thrashing vs SL, one-day thrashing vs PAK and one-day draw vs RSA clearly outweighed the one-off test defeat to PAK. Now, things are getting dangerous and we should expect Chappell to respond to the crisis. He may not be the greatest diplomat when it comes to handling the Indian press, but who gives a bloody hell about that if he has a cricketing brain. He is not an idiot, I assure you.

First of all drawing the RSA ODIs is not an achievment. Last time we had won the series against Hansie's team, which was much better than the current one. He is not an Idiot, I know. But he doesn't seem to be a good coach either. Indian batting has never looked consistently so bad in last 10-15 years as it has been in under him.

 

[adharcric]

I think the problem is that you're referring to people who claim that Chappell is the messiah of Indian cricket. I don't adhere to that view by any means. He has and will help this team .. yes I believe in that. Is he a magnificent coach .. no he hasn't proved it yet. Could he become one .. only time will tell.

Go ahead and attack people who think Chappell is the great messiah after such a short span. Don't attack Chappell because people gave him too much credit.

 

[PY]

Would you guys class Duncan Fletcher as a world-class coach?

 

[Sanz]

Would you guys class Duncan Fletcher as a world-class coach?

Looking at the results he has shown in last few years - YES.

 

[luckyeddie]

Would you guys class Duncan Fletcher as a world-class coach?

Without a shadow of a doubt.

 

[open365]

Would you guys class Duncan Fletcher as a world-class coach?

Personaly, i reckon we shouldn't judge coaches that much.

I mean, how do we really know the effect of Duncan Fletcher on the England side? Sure, the results have gone well, but with good results coems all the media about all the great things the coaches are doing, it happened with the rugby world cup, then when we started playing badly everyone turns on the coaches and forgets all the extra stuff Woodward added to the side.

 

[Sanz]

I think the problem is that you're referring to people who claim that Chappell is the messiah of Indian cricket. I don't adhere to that view by any means. He has and will help this team .. yes I believe in that. Is he a magnificent coach .. no he hasn't proved it yet. Could he become one .. only time will tell.

Go ahead and attack people who think Chappell is the great messiah after such a short span. Don't attack Chappell because people gave him too much credit.

Ahem....remember This ?

"The arrival of Greg Chappell is truly a gift for Indian cricket. The effects of his 'commitment to excellence' have already been felt......Chappell's emphasis on fielding and fitness has also spread across the Indian cricket scene......Greg Chappell looks to be the perfect man to prepare India for the 2007 World Cup."

 

[Sanz]

Having said that, I would consider dropping Dhoni if his keeping, while standing up to the stumps, does not improve. How is he better than Parthiv Patel in this regard?.

So suddenly he is equivalent to Parthiv Patel ??

Few months ago :-
"Keeper :
Dhoni is fine. We need to be sure we want Dinesh Karthick as the standby. I am not so sure.