***Official*** England in India

[Swervy]

They've lost 3 cricket series since 2002/03. 0-2 to NZ (and the pitches did have something ot say about that), 1-2 to Australia and 0-1 to Pakistan. They've been far from poor.

But lets be fair,much of Indias success at home is due to the nature of the pitches, it suits the Indian style of play (or rather the nature of Indian pitches has moulded the way Indians have played throughout history)...the pitches in NZ suited NZ.
You are right, they have been far from poor, but that doesnt get away from the fact that Indias performances when good are blown out of proportion (apart from maybe the 1-1 draw in Australia)

Their recent struggles have come with the fact that whilst their bowling stocks have recently improved, their unbelieavable batting strength of 2003/04 when IMO they were the number 1 batting team in the world has fallen off. They have never had the opportunity to fuse the two of them together and form one very good team. They've never been close to the number 1 team in the world, but I fail to see how they're overrated at test level when they very rarely lose a test series.

well they rarely lose at home,and even then they have now been beaten by Australia and Pakistan, and outplayed by a seriously depleted England team.

Again, its a part of the hype about India that they had such a great batting line up a few years ago. yes, it was very good, but it was easily exposed in conditions that didnt quite suit. Australia in all honesty had a better batting line up than India even when India were at their best

With all due respect Swervy, you seem to come out from nowhere with outlandish comments after something has occurred, and then claim you've been saying this was the case for a long time. Its farily conceited. Where were you claiming Sachin was past it when he hit 100, 42 and 95 on the trot against Pakistan during the ODI series. Or why weren't India overrated after their 2nd test win against England?

I dont really think it is outlandish to say what I said. If you read what I said again, I was actually responding to what was implied by the previous poster (dont know who it was). I have said for the last 3 years that I didnt think India is as good as has been made out in the past, and all I was saying was that I wasnt the only one to see that as well.

re; Tendulkar..at no point have I said he cant cut it in the one day arena, but no-one can deny that he isnt the batsman he was, and in fact there are probably 15-20 players in world cricket at the moment who could be considered a bigger threat than Sachin in test cricket. I genuinely see Tendulkar as a weak link in the Indian batting line up at the moment...unfortunately...and I say unfortunately because I think in the past he has been a truely great player

re; India after the second test...no India werent overrated after the 2nd test vs England, they were overrated before the series started...and in fact I bought into the hype a bit myself. After the injuries and all that I could see the 3-0 happening. Overs 50 to 76 in Indias first innings of the series made me readjust my feelings back to what my head thought about India for the last few years, they are a team that dont like aggressive accurate bowling and have a tendancy to crumble. After the first test, I think it was clear that England on the whole are a stronger team than India, and Englands loss in the next test didnt really change my opinion on that.

Sorry if it sounds conceited, but its how I feel

 

[Swervy]

yeah the guy seems to be fairly knowledgable about cricket in general but from his comments at least seems to have a serious chip on his shoulder about indian cricket, tendulkar etc....dunno why....have seen him give balanced statements on a lot of other cricketing stuff....

sorry you think I have a chip on my shoulder about India...I really dont, I just recoil from much of the hype that surrounds this team since 2001

 

[Pothas]

Personaly, i reckon we shouldn't judge coaches that much.

I mean, how do we really know the effect of Duncan Fletcher on the England side? Sure, the results have gone well, but with good results coems all the media about all the great things the coaches are doing, it happened with the rugby world cup, then when we started playing badly everyone turns on the coaches and forgets all the extra stuff Woodward added to the side.

I think we can be pretty sure that Duncan Fletcher is a world class coach. He has helped totaly turn around the structure and attitude of the English side. In whatever terms you measure it Duncan Flethcher has done a brilliant job for England.

 

[adharcric]

Ahem....remember This ?

"The arrival of Greg Chappell is truly a gift for Indian cricket. The effects of his 'commitment to excellence' have already been felt......Chappell's emphasis on fielding and fitness has also spread across the Indian cricket scene......Greg Chappell looks to be the perfect man to prepare India for the 2007 World Cup."

LOL. Yeah I said it back then and I still stand by it. I feel Chappell will improve this side a lot and is a great choice to prepare this team.
I never said he's a messiah though, far from it. A coach can't turn a team around, the players have to respond as well, as do the selectors.
Chappell isn't flawless, but he could really help Indian cricket.

Your focus also seems to be more on proving that your opinion about cricket is better than anyone else's rather than just contributing to the forum, which you can do very well. (hint: go the JustTool way)

 

[Sanz]

But lets be fair,much of Indias success at home is due to the nature of the pitches, it suits the Indian style of play (or rather the nature of Indian pitches has moulded the way Indians have played throughout history)...the pitches in NZ suited NZ.
You are right, they have been far from poor, but that doesnt get away from the fact that Indias performances when good are blown out of proportion (apart from maybe the 1-1 draw in Australia)

So Let me get this straight - when England draws a series in India, English Coach and Captain declare it as big as ASHES. But when India draw a series in England or Australia, its blown out of proportion, right ??


BTW - I have never heard an Indian player declaring their 1-1 draw in England or Australia as big as their 2-1 over Australia in 2001.

 

[Swervy]

So Let me get this straight - when England draws a series in India, English Coach and Captain declare it as big as ASHES. But when India draw a series in England or Australia, its blown out of proportion, right ??


BTW - I have never heard an Indian player declaring their 1-1 draw in England or Australia as big as their 2-1 over Australia in 2001.

Well yeah the drawing of a series after being 1-0 in India with a new captain, and a team that was basically a glorified A team, winning their first test in India for 23 years and generally outplaying India, I am sure to the players does feel as big as the Ashes.

Indians draw vs England in England, blown out of proportion??? Who by???

vs Australia in 2001...blown out of proportion..by who???

 

[Sanz]

well they rarely lose at home,and even then they have now been beaten by Australia and Pakistan, and outplayed by a seriously depleted England team.

Pakistan didn't beat india in test series in India.

Australia in all honesty had a better batting line up than India even when India were at their best

That is your opinion, not a fact.

re; Tendulkar..at no point have I said he cant cut it in the one day arena, but no-one can deny that he isnt the batsman he was, and in fact there are probably 15-20 players in world cricket at the moment who could be considered a bigger threat than Sachin in test cricket. I genuinely see Tendulkar as a weak link in the Indian batting line up at the moment...unfortunately...and I say unfortunately because I think in the past he has been a truely great player

Care to explain your post where you said that Tendulkar is past his best for five years ? There are many people who feel same way about Tendulkar's batting right now and that he doesn't deserve to be in the team but suggesting that he has been past his peak for close to five years is outrageous.

 

[adharcric]

Hey Sanz, what does that "Ganguly - 3, Chappell - 0" refer to?

 

[Swervy]

Pakistan didn't beat india in test series in India.

my error

That is your opinion, not a fact.

fair enough

Care to explain your post where you said that Tendulkar is past his best for five years ? There are many people who feel same way about Tendulkar's batting right now and that he doesn't deserve to be in the team but suggesting that he has been past his peak for close to five years is outrageous.

I guess its down to opinion isnt ..but I dont think Sachin has been the same player for getting on five years...for me his peak was from around 1995ish to 2001ish..I dont think it is outragous to think that he hasnt been at his peak since 2001 or 2002,and really the stats do kind of back that up

 

[Sanz]

Well yeah the drawing of a series after being 1-0 in India with a new captain, and a team that was basically a glorified A team, winning their first test in India for 23 years and generally outplaying India, I am sure to the players does feel as big as the Ashes.

Well same can be said about India too, when was the last time India drew or won a series in England ? Let me guess 1986, when was the last time they won/drew a series in Australia ? How about never ? So why shouldn't Indian fans feel that as an achievement ?

Indians draw vs England in England, blown out of proportion??? Who by???

you tell us ? You are the one who is claiming that Indian team is hyped and Indian wins are hyped, well isn't what the English team just did ?

vs Australia in 2001...blown out of proportion..by who???

That win deserves all the hype, winning a test series where Australia were coming from a 16-0 run and hammered us in Mumbai and again in the first innings of Kolkata. I dont think that series was hyped enough. That series should have been hyped much more, it should have been celebrated more more bringing out a few DVDs.

 

[Sanz]

Hey Sanz, what does that "Ganguly - 3, Chappell - 0" refer to?

ODI Vs. SA - Ganguly won, Chappell Drew [Ganguly 1, Chappell 0]
Test Series in Pak - Ganguly Won, Chappell Lost [Ganguly 2, Chappell 0]
Test Series vs. England - Ganguly won, Chappell Drew. [Ganguly 3, Chappell 0]

Now dont take that seriously, Signatures are for fun.

 

[superkingdave]

so when is India's next home test series? (just noticed the banner on cricinfo saying that we'll be getting all India's home tests on sky until 2010

 

[Sanz]

I guess its down to opinion isnt ..but I dont think Sachin has been the same player for getting on five years...for me his peak was from around 1995ish to 2001ish..I dont think it is outragous to think that he hasnt been at his peak since 2001 or 2002,and really the stats do kind of back that up

You are looking at wrong stats then.

http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?...edhigh=;csearch=;submit=1;.cgifields=viewtype

 

[Sanz]

LOL. Yeah I said it back then and I still stand by it. I feel Chappell will improve this side a lot and is a great choice to prepare this team.
I never said he's a messiah though, far from it. A coach can't turn a team around, the players have to respond as well, as do the selectors.
Chappell isn't flawless, but he could really help Indian cricket.

Well I guess we can agree to disagree then.

Your focus also seems to be more on proving that your opinion about cricket is better than anyone else's rather than just contributing to the forum, which you can do very well. (hint: go the JustTool way)

I apologize If my posts come across like that.

 

[Dasa]

sorry you think I have a chip on my shoulder about India...I really dont, I just recoil from much of the hype that surrounds this team since 2001

You seem quite happy to embrace the hype that surrounds England...you've expressed your view that you think they're almost the number one team, and you've said that they have one of the best batting lineups in the world. If that's not hype, what is?

 

[silentstriker]

We are still a bit mystified by the speed of India’s spectacular collapse. They seemed intent on going down with all guns blazing. For example, what on earth was Mahendra Dhoni doing? Answers on a postcard, please, because we still haven’t figured it out.

-Matthew Hoggard

This is why I want Dhoni's test career ended (along with about half our current national team). He disgusts me. When I see him on TV, I want to throw up all over his face.

 

[silentstriker]

Oh, and while we are at it, throw out Sehwag, Harbhajan, Yuvraj, and Pathan too. At least for the next tour, so they get the message.

But Dhoni should be gone for at least a year, so he can sit at home and think about the utterly irresponsible shot that cost him his career.

 

[SJS]

Having got all the frustration of losing a series they felt was rightfully theirs, Indian fans will realise that they cant throw out half the team (more it seems) and survive. Here is the team that should play in the Delhi match.

1. Sehwag
2. Gambhir
3. Dravid
4. Yuvraj
5. Kaif
6. Raina
7. Dhoni
8. Pathan
9. Powar
10. RP Singh
11. Sreesanth
12. Munaf

Yes I know these are twelve. But I have no clue as to who should open and what we are going to do for the fifth bowler. Sachin has created TWO gaps in the team. Gambhir as well as an extra bowler have beeen drafted in my team. This is not a happy situation. Maybe they will ask Pathan to open and drop Gambhir.

I also suspect they will try to fit in one of Agarkar or Harbjajan since the attack has a bit of inexperienced look about it. I think that would be a mistake.

 

[adharcric]

Oh, and while we are at it, throw out Sehwag, Harbhajan, Yuvraj, and Pathan too. At least for the next tour, so they get the message.

But Dhoni should be gone for at least a year, so he can sit at home and think about the utterly irresponsible shot that cost him his career.

You know, he could just prove his mettle as a test-class batsman and win India some matches. Did he make a fool of himself and play one of the most irresponsible shots in the history of cricket? Certainly. Everyone makes mistakes, he usually succeeds on those big shots ... not saying he should've played that shot, but for God's sake, it was a mistake, he didn't fix a match or cheat. If there is a sportsman and a class act within him, he will surely bounce back. Maybe he isn't good enough to be a test player, but we haven't figured that out yet ... not after such a short span in which he has both done well and done poorly.

Didn't Allan Donald execute that ridiculous run-out for South Africa in that world cup? Was that it for him. Certainly not. Have some faith and be level-headed.

 

[SJS]

Didn't Allan Donald execute that ridiculous run-out for South Africa in that world cup? Was that it for him. Certainly not. Have some faith and be level-headed.

BTW, why did you leave out Sreesanth from your signature?