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***Official*** England in India

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Barney Rubble said:
Well, now you mention it......;)





:D
India capitulating for 100 inside of 50 overs doesn't you or anyone else right at all with regards to declarations. England could have declared at 0-0 and they'd have won, so does that mean declaring at 0-0 would have been right? No, but nice try anyway and nice to see you've lost that disclaimer Ganguly lover.

*Starts looking for 3-0 predictions*
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
wow what a superb win that was this morning, England bowled superbly & India just capitulated & out of all the English bowlers who would have expected Udal to be the hero:laugh: , the unfortunate thing for him though is that could be his final test.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
The analysis of the series is pretty simple for me... India's batting has NOT been all that good since the 2004 Pak tour. I have always said that. England lost ONE main player who is injury prone anyway. And by chance, the injury to Harmison allowed them to play Anderson, someone who I always felt would do well in India. A lot of guys fail to consider the SG ball as a factor in India. It's prominent seam gives guys like Anderson who can swing it at decent pace a great chance.


Flintoff, I always felt, would get guys to perform better than their best for him. He seems to have the ability to inspire people, something Kapil did for India quite brilliantly in the WC in 83. India has a good bowling attack, but India has to take the bait now and drop Irfan if they are going to play just 4 bowlers in the Windies, esp. if the wicket looks like one that could take turn later on. Sachin should NOT tour the Windies at all. They are not all that great a team at the moment, although they weren't all that good last time we went there either and we still ended up losing to them.


Panesar is a better spinner than Giles. There, I said it. The reason is he actually has 3 or more options of getting a batsman out, unlike Giles who had two at the max. He flights the ball a bit more, extracts a bit more bounce than Giles off the wicket and in general, seems to have a good idea of when batters are looking to attack him and when they are looking to see him off. That has allowed him to bowl flat (like he did with Dhoni and Pathan) and yet attack when the batsmen are intent on seeing him off (like he has done with Sachin a bit).


India need to seriously consider things like close in catching ability and the slip cordon stability when they start to choose their test elevens from now. I always felt guys like Yuvi and Kaif would be good all round fielders but it is obvious that they are excellent only in the infield saving singles. Anywhere else, they are not even of a decent standard. Laxman should come in for Sachin in the tests in the Caribbean and Sehwag COULD be dropped if he keeps batting the same way. Ideally, this should be the team to face the Windies in the first test:


Sehwag/GAmbhir
Jaffer
Dravid
Laxman
Yuvraj
Kaif
Dhoni
Pathan/Harbhajan
Kumble
Sreesanth
Patel.


BTW, I don't think Jaffer is all that great either. He played very well on the flat track at Nagpur but hasn't done much since then. He looks good, but it just seems to me that a bit of fizz went off his batting after the first test. I guess he was really worked up for his comeback after so many years and after having made such a good comeback, he inadvertently kinda took it easy since then. I still don't think he is any sort of a permanent solution to our perennial opening worry.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Scaly piscine said:
India capitulating for 100 inside of 50 overs doesn't you or anyone else right at all with regards to declarations. England could have declared at 0-0 and they'd have won, so does that mean declaring at 0-0 would have been right? No, but nice try anyway and nice to see you've lost that disclaimer Ganguly lover.

*Starts looking for 3-0 predictions*

Morning SP. Gracious as ever, I see.... 8-)
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Scaly piscine said:
You know it.
You wouldn't find too many from the REAL Indian fans here. We were all rather positive that England will do well. I remember Sanz saying positive stuff about England's chances and I did the same. AFter all, when a team has nothing to lose, they mostly play better than they can, not worse. RSA did chase down 434, didn't they? ;)
 

adharcric

International Coach
honestbharani said:
India need to seriously consider things like close in catching ability and the slip cordon stability when they start to choose their test elevens from now. I always felt guys like Yuvi and Kaif would be good all round fielders but it is obvious that they are excellent only in the infield saving singles.
I showed my hesitancy earlier when Gambhir was being dropped, he was a pretty solid short-leg fielder, which is huge for us with Kumble and Harbhajan operating in tandem.
 

Pedro Delgado

International Debutant
SJS said:
Yes thats true but thats been the case throughout this series, not just in this match. We had it coming. Dravid , aftr 40, 71, 95, 42no and 52, was due for a failure and none of the others barring Jaffer have shown any intention of playing a test class innings throughout the series.

Dhoni exemplifies whats wrong with Indian cricket at least in the longer version and on wickets other than flat tracks.

The Indian fans, some on this forum, who measure batting class by run rates, deserve the disappointment in a way.

I am terribly disappointed, heart broken in fact but not the least bit surprised. I didnt go to the match last two days only because I didnt see how it is going to result in anything but disappointment for India.

Batting as well as fielding, India have been at a very low ebb. The youngsters and Kumble have saved us from a white wash.
That is disappointing SJS, win or lose one should support the team and enjoy the opposition, Freddie won't be around forever you know and he's worth watching.

However I know how you feel, watching England for most of the '90s was pretty heartbreaking and sometimes so bad one could only "lol", to use modern parlance.
 

steds

Hall of Fame Member
Hahahahaahahaha! Udal got 4 wickets. I bet Sachin, Dhoni, Harbhajan and Munaf are kicking themselves. :laugh:
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
So what's England's starting XI in the ODI's going to look like?

Possibly:
Strauss, Prior, Shah, KP, Fred, Collingwood, Jones, Blackwell, Plunkett, Hoggard & Anderson.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
adharcric said:
Now I'm thinking Tendulkar's injury might be a subtle blessing in disguise so we can do some deep introspection and figure out what the hell is wrong with our team. Time for some changes perhaps, not sure what though.
First, we should pray that sachin will get back to form. If he does, it will be oriceless for India. We are not ready with any thing remotely like a replacement for him.

Two, we need to realise that test cricket is different and batting on wickets that are not dead as a Dodo is different. Thats why Sachin, Dravid and Laxman are special. Sehwag has limitations which he has to work to overcome. Just saying that we should leave him to his own methods is being stupid and worse.

Yuvraj has shown some maturity but needs to learn how to stay at the wicket for a day and a half. It requires a different mind set.

Jaffer needs to be persisted with but I think we have a problem with sehwag opening. If Dravid does not want to open, we need to find another solid opener.

In the last three series, in 9 test matches, we have had (other than the 410 in that bowlers graveyard in Pakistan, the following series of opening partnerships.

13
2
12
31
0
39
21*
9
8
11
1
18
39
9
6

Surely this is a major problem. Sehwag ia a big part of this problem. He needs to work on his deficiencies and stupid fans and ignorant TV channel anchors may get carried away by "I am like that only" but this wont cut much ice with world class bowlers particularly on wickets that are not dead.

NEXT, Dhoni's keeping is a problem. There is no point denying it because we cant even contemplate saying a word against our sporting Gods (until the day we decide to dump them unceremoniously). It was pathetic Siva trying to defend Dhoni's extremely poor show standing up to the stumps by saying wicket keeping is not an easy job particularly to world class spinners , Really? Thats news. So what are we siupposed to do. Dump the world class spinners or tell them that return catches are the only mode of dismissal available besides bowled and LBW?

Ridiculous. His batting IS NOT a justification/cover for poor keeping. If we think he is the new batting God, lets play him as a batsman and have a better wicket keeper. This wont do. The missed stumping of Flintoff, killed India's chances and that was not the only one. AND its not just the missed stumpings and catches that tell the sorry tale, it is the missed balls even when they do not come off the bat. They scare me for they show a bad keeper. Its only a matter of time when one of those missed balls would be off the bat.

NEXT, our slip catching is pathetic barring Dravid and the now discarded Laxman. You can play ODI's without great slip fielders (since you can win them without taking a wicket or even after conceding 434 runs) but test matches cant be won without a minimum four guys who are really good in the slip cordon. More so with the emerging new ball bowlers.

I saw the Indian team practicing for slip catches at the Wankhede stadium the other day. It was very lackadasical. Half of them dont even stand properly for slips. Then they were practicing only long catches which are difficult to for a batsman to give sharply during practice. You need to practice from much shorter distances to develop the reflexes.

On the bowling front, while things have improved with the new boys, I am amazed to see that Munaf almost a debutanyt, is the ONLY bowler in the team who sticks to a line. Pathan sprays it all over the place. The others do the to a varying degree.

Hoggard's major difference from the Indian bowlers was that he pitched the ball at more or less the same spot, ball after ball until he decided upon a variation like a bouncer or a yorker. This is what county cricket teaches you I suppose but who is disciplining the Indian bowlers.

I think these are problems enough. We have a big plus in the new bowlers like Munaf and Sreesanth who have shown some promise but we have far too many things to resolve before we start clamouring that the number two spot is rightfully ours.

Finally, lets NEVER forget that this series was played by us (and a poor show it was from us) against an England side devoid of five certs in their starting eleven and a sixth who looked so good in the first game.

We nearly lost at home to an England B team and thats a big big worry.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Pedro Delgado said:
That is disappointing SJS, win or lose one should support the team and enjoy the opposition, Freddie won't be around forever you know and he's worth watching.

However I know how you feel, watching England for most of the '90s was pretty heartbreaking and sometimes so bad one could only "lol", to use modern parlance.
I know what you say is correct but it is not losing that was the reason. India has lost more matches than won since I have been watching anyway. It was the terrible terrible fielding that really upset me. Plus I was very upset with Sachin being booed in Mumbai. I have already written about it before.

A great part of the pleasure of watching a test match is the feeling of oneness with your fellow spectators. That was lost that day.
 

Pedro Delgado

International Debutant
SJS said:
I know what you say is correct but it is not losing that was the reason. India has lost more matches than won since I have been watching anyway. It was the terrible terrible fielding that really upset me. Plus I was very upset with Sachin being booed in Mumbai. I have already written about it before.

A great part of the pleasure of watching a test match is the feeling of oneness with your fellow spectators. That was lost that day.
I understand and in a similar situation I may have done the same.

Chin up old cake :)
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
honestbharani said:
To be honest, though, SJS, we never really came close to losing the series. :)
No we didnt. You are right about that. Although in the first test England were on top for almost four days at a stretch.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
SJS said:
No we didnt. You are right about that. Although in the first test England were on top for almost four days at a stretch.
This straw is probably not big enough for the both of us to hold on to, though. ;)
 

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