***Official*** Bangladesh in England

[Kasper]

How'd the rest of the Bangladesh side go?

Got to remember this guy is only 16/17 and played just 5 first class games. That alone is impressive.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

How'd the rest of the Bangladesh side go?

Got to remember this guy is only 16/17 and played just 5 first class games. That alone is impressive.

The rest were awful, but they usually are - especially considering this wasn't the normal Bangladesh top order (it lacked Javed Omar, Khaled Mashud and an injured Bashar, who made 22* off 23 balls before getting hit by a bouncer, and also Rafique, who's a useful batsman)

As for only being 17, so were most of the other Bangladeshis when they made their debuts. Nafis Iqbal was 17 when he scored a ton against England in a warm-up, still haven't done much apart from taking the Mugabe Select XI apart.

To pencil him out as a "real player of the future" when all he's done is score 63 against a moderately hopeless Sussex attack in a pointless warm-up game is way too early. He's got potential, granted, but so has a lot of other Bangladeshi 18-year-olds (as shown by the relative success of their U-19 team)

 

[Kasper]

The rest of the Under 19 are well drilled and are very professional in the way they play, but probably only 1 or 2 more of them will ever be test standard. They were well prepared as a team for the tour but if most teams trained six days a week they'd go alright too.

Rahim is a class above.

 

[marc71178]

As Sam said, better to reserve judgment until he actually faces an attack with any top level ability.

 

[badgerhair]

re Bevan

I doubt he scored three centuries on a tour cus he didn't get that many in his career.

That's funny. Most official statistics show that he actually scored 6 centuries in his relevant career. But no, he didn't score three in a series and then get left out of the Test team. I realised later that a far more likely candidate was Gilchrist, but he didn't manage three hundreds in a series - his best was two in a series before being left out of the Test team.

However, I did discover someone who scored three centuries on tour and was promptly left out of the Test team. Graeme Hick, who scored 3 hundreds in the CUS series in Australia in 1998-99 and was not selected for the First Test against New Zealand the following summer.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[a massive zebra]

Against Bangaldesh, he made 257 and took 5-83.

Either Mike's the new Andrew Flintoff, or Bangladesh have had an absolute stencher.

Flintoff has never come remotely close to those type of all-round figures in any first-class match.

 

[badgerhair]

As for only being 17, so were most of the other Bangladeshis when they made their debuts. Nafis Iqbal was 17 when he scored a ton against England in a warm-up, still haven't done much apart from taking the Mugabe Select XI apart.

To pencil him out as a "real player of the future" when all he's done is score 63 against a moderately hopeless Sussex attack in a pointless warm-up game is way too early. He's got potential, granted, but so has a lot of other Bangladeshi 18-year-olds (as shown by the relative success of their U-19 team)

Judging by the enthusiastic tone of Mike Selvey's report, I'm very much inclined to side with Kasper on this one.

It may well be years before he gets a Test berth and starts to succeed at that level, but some teenagers just exude quality so that you know they will be top players in the end. Michael Vaughan was obviously a class above at age 15, even if it took him 8 or 9 years to make to Test level from there. Billy Shafayat was another who got the extra-special reviews as a teenager, and from what I saw yesterday is still on course to be a major batsman of the 2010s. I am also told, though I haven't seen him play, that Middlesex have unearthed a schoolboy prodigy by the name of Godleman who could well be amazing by 2014 or so.

As for Nafis Iqbal, it's far too early to expect anything much from him - he's still only 20 for Pete's sake. If he still hasn't done anything by 2011, you could reasonably say he's been a damp squib, but until then it's ridiculous.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Flintoff has never come remotely close to those type of all-round figures in any first-class match.

I think he meant more that Flintoff had a poor start to his international career and has since turned it around to a major degree.

Anyway, Flintoff certainly has great individual all-round performances under his belt. For example, in an ODI against the same opposition in 2003 (Bangladesh), he took 4/14 in 9.4 overs with the ball and then hit 55 not out off 52. I'm sure there's better examples in county cricket I'm not familiar with.

 

[badgerhair]

I think he meant more that Flintoff had a poor start to his international career and has since turned it around to a major degree.

I think he simply meant that Flintoff is currently a devastating all-rounder - as Yardy's figures would seem to indicate.

Anyway, Flintoff certainly has great individual all-round performances under his belt. For example, in an ODI against the same opposition in 2003 (Bangladesh), he took 4/14 in 9.4 overs with the ball and then hit 55 not out off 52. I'm sure there's better examples in county cricket I'm not familiar with.

One f-c performance which rather outstrips Yardy's was George Giffen's for South Australia v Victoria at Adelaide in 1891-92. He scored 271 and had bowling figures of 9-96 and 7-70.

The most recent instance of someone getting a hundred in each innings and ten wickets in the match was Franklyn Stephenson for Notts v Yorks at Trent Bridge in 1988, with 111 & 117 and 4-105 & 7-117.

Just idly looking for some other likely Yardyesque customers, there was Denis Compton getting 246 for Middx (though he retired hurt on 55 and came back at the fall of the next wicket about 80 runs later) and taking 4-57 and a further 2-84 when the Rest of England followed on in 1947. Wally Hammond had 264 and 3-48 & 4-58 v Lancs 1932.

And now I've got to go and cook dinner, so I'll have to leave it there.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Langeveldt]

I thought the Yardie's were a Jamaican gang before Bangladesh turned up

 

[a massive zebra]

I think he simply meant that Flintoff is currently a devastating all-rounder - as Yardy's figures would seem to indicate.

Flintoff can indeed be a devastating batsman on his day, and those days have become ever more frequent in recent times, but he is still not a devastating Test bowler. His recent Test bowling averages may be good, but one 5 wicket haul in 45 matches and none in the last 12 months proves he that his bowling is far from devastating.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Judging by the enthusiastic tone of Mike Selvey's report, I'm very much inclined to side with Kasper on this one.

It may well be years before he gets a Test berth and starts to succeed at that level, but some teenagers just exude quality so that you know they will be top players in the end. Michael Vaughan was obviously a class above at age 15, even if it took him 8 or 9 years to make to Test level from there. Billy Shafayat was another who got the extra-special reviews as a teenager, and from what I saw yesterday is still on course to be a major batsman of the 2010s. I am also told, though I haven't seen him play, that Middlesex have unearthed a schoolboy prodigy by the name of Godleman who could well be amazing by 2014 or so.

As for Nafis Iqbal, it's far too early to expect anything much from him - he's still only 20 for Pete's sake. If he still hasn't done anything by 2011, you could reasonably say he's been a damp squib, but until then it's ridiculous.

Key word in all of this being "could". He might have talent, but as you said, it's far too early to expect anything from these guys yet - or, indeed, know what the future may hold for them. You might say that Rahim has a greater probability of succeeding at international level than many other 16-year-olds, but there's still things that may stop him. It really does not do anyone any good to overhype players at this stage in their career based on very few performances.

 

[marc71178]

Flintoff has never come remotely close to those type of all-round figures in any first-class match.

Flintoff has never had the luxury of playing against a weakened Bangladesh side.

 

[aussie]

Now where have I seen that quote before, believe it was Mr Botham having a moan about the selectors actually doing the right thing.

i'm not refering to a quote made here on cricket web, i'm speaking genrally most people i talk to & i guess elsewhere argee that Bell is a justifiable selection over KP. Dont know what Botham has to do with what i said

 

[Pratters]

http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/...ADS/BDESH_IN_ENG_MAY-JUL2005_BDESH-SQUAD.html

What is the Bangladesh squad? Cricinfo doesnt have it in the way they do it for the moment one week before the test.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

One f-c performance which rather outstrips Yardy's was George Giffen's for South Australia v Victoria at Adelaide in 1891-92. He scored 271 and had bowling figures of 9-96 and 7-70.

The most recent instance of someone getting a hundred in each innings and ten wickets in the match was Franklyn Stephenson for Notts v Yorks at Trent Bridge in 1988, with 111 & 117 and 4-105 & 7-117.

Just idly looking for some other likely Yardyesque customers, there was Denis Compton getting 246 for Middx (though he retired hurt on 55 and came back at the fall of the next wicket about 80 runs later) and taking 4-57 and a further 2-84 when the Rest of England followed on in 1947. Wally Hammond had 264 and 3-48 & 4-58 v Lancs 1932.

And now I've got to go and cook dinner, so I'll have to leave it there.

Cheers,

Mike

Looking for some in tests... in 1962 against India Sobers hit a century and a fifty in the same match, and took 5/62 in the second innings. Even better was at Headingly in 1966, when he belted 174 and followed it up 5/41 and 3/39 in an innings victory.

In 1983 against India, Imran Khan took 6/98 and 5/82, and also hit 117.

Botham being the mecurial sort of player he was has lots of examples. After he made 103 against New Zealand in 1978 he followed it up with 5/73 and 3/38. Against Pakistan in the same year he scored 108 and after a wicketless first innings with the ball destroyed Pakistan to take 8/34 in the second. He single-handedly destroyed India in 1980 with 114 out of a team score of 296, and figures of 6/58 and 7/48 with the ball. Then of course there is his most famous moment, his 50 and 149 and 6/95 at Headingly in 1981.

I'm sure there are others which come close to Yardy too.

 

[chaminda_00]

Flintoff has never had the luxury of playing against a weakened Bangladesh side.

Has he not played any British University sides

 

[chaminda_00]

http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/...ADS/BDESH_IN_ENG_MAY-JUL2005_BDESH-SQUAD.html

What is the Bangladesh squad? Cricinfo doesnt have it in the way they do it for the moment one week before the test.

Here it is: squad

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Has he not played any British University sides

Three: Durham Uni in 97 (1 & 15), Cambridge Uni in 2000 (80* and 7-4-8-0) and Durham in 2001 (120 and 9-4-23-0).

So he's never bowled enough against them to take 5-wicket-hauls with the ball, and batting at 5-6 in a 3-day match means that he doesn't get enough time to score 257.

 

[Pratters]

Here it is: squad

Thanks