Langeveldt
Soutie
Its just swings and roundabouts...Take the rough with the smooth and learn that what goes around comes around..jot1 said:
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***Official Australia in South Africa***
- Thread starter howardj
- Start date
TT Boy
Hall of Fame Member
Bit late but what was the point of selecting Amla and Dale Steyn? Andre Nel looks woefully under par, no pace and he bottled out of the battle with the bat against Brett Lee and Jacques Rudolph continues to show that he can not only not play spin but he struggles against any sort of pace (Though minus Shane Bond he will excel against New Zealand). Steyn might be expensive but his pace would have troubled the Australians as Barry Richards commented, the bowlers with pace are the bowlers who cause problems at Jo’burg.
Good knock by Prince, been a big critic of his but contrary to what Brett Lee said he did deserve a ton, stepped up to the plate.
Good knock by Prince, been a big critic of his but contrary to what Brett Lee said he did deserve a ton, stepped up to the plate.
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
Set up very nicely for a good finish to the series, this. It's an interesting wicket to watch cricket on, and you'd think South Africa are in the box seat to win from here. If they can get a small lead and make 250 or more in the second innings, it will be a tough chase.
oz_fan
International Regular
Yeah if they are playing Symonds for his all round ability at 6 it is just ridiculous. He averages under 20 with the bat and has taken 8 wickets at 45 after 9 matches. His bowling strike rate is over 100!! Australia need to forget about an all rounder. My team when all the players are full fit would be:Jono said:
1.Langer
2.Hayden
3.Ponting
4.Hussey
5.Clarke
6.Gilchrist
7.Warne
8.Lee
9.Clark (has really impressed in this series)
10.Tait/ MacGill (Depending on conditions)
11.McGrath (when he comes back)
Lee and Warne together are good enough to bat at 7/8 and provide 50 runs together. If Gilly continues to fail possiby move him back down to 7 take out Tait and give Watson another go at 6.
I disagree with you about Nel opening the bowling. Pollock is opening the bowling not only for himself but also for Ntini. Pollock provides consistency where as Ntini is the aggressor which frustrates the opposition. Pollock mightn't take many wickets but he certainly helps Ntini get his. It is a similar opening pair to Donald (Aggressor)/Pollock (Accurate).
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
http://wi.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1999-2000/PAK_IN_AUS/SCORECARDS/PAK_AUS_T2_18-22NOV1999.htmlGoT_SpIn said:
when Langer and Gilly had that superb partnership to win one of Australia's best test wins no doubt, if i remember Langer was out LBW to Akram early on that 5th day plus he edged a delivery off him & was given not out when he was in the 80's in think. Also Slater was out lbw long before he had gone to 27.
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
He's certainly much better than some of them - almost restrained in comparisondontcloseyoureyes said:
(Actually I've heard handcuffs are his favourite)
C_C
International Captain
I am sorry but I've watched close calls splitting almost 90-10 in OZ favour game after game. Oz players know how to play the umpires and exert pressure on them. Its no coincidence that the OZ team is the most vocal about not introducing technology into the equation.aussie said:
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
What crap. 90 to 10? Game after game? How much cricket do you even watch? The last time there was a series in which the poor calls went Australia's way was the 2004/05 home season against Pakistan.C_C said:
England had marginally the better of the calls in the Ashes, as did New Zealand in the series beforehand, the home summer was about 50/50, and this series has been the same. In the second test of this series for example, South Africa had about three bad calls go their way. Are you suggesting Australia had 27?
C_C
International Captain
Havnt watched much in the last 2-3 years but late 90s to 2003 was pretty prolific in watching cricket. And yes, tour after tour the close decisions went 90-10 to OZ. especially lbws.
Benifit of the doubt routinely goes to OZ bowlers and benifit of doubt to their batsmen. Perhasps things have changed in the last 2-3 years but even the little i've watched says otherwise.
I watched entire IND in OZ 2004 and the Kiwis in OZ. close calls were atleast 80-20 in OZ's favour throughout those series as well.
As i said, its no coincidence that the OZ has been by far the most vocal team in opposing introduction of technology in umpiring.
Also note how the umpires OZ lodged an official complaint against ( such as Ashoka deSilva) promptly lost their jobs but other umpires like Bucknor have been completely let off the hook despite equally serious complaints by other teams.
The OZ team is a very very good team and very very hard to beat.
But the common chant 'we play hard but we play fair' is nothing more than PR bulldust really.
The same people who implore others to walk or take the fielder's word for it stand their ground when blatently out, break the stumps with the ball not even in the same picture frame etc. etc. Height of sanctimonious hypocrasy really.
Some popers were like that in the midevial ages.
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FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
Err. Ross Emerson, anyone? You know, the guy who Ranatunga manhandled on the field of play and never made it anywhere as an umpire, while Ranatunga got off without punishment? How about Hair? DeSilva lost his job because he was an awful umpire. Bucknor, while he's been fairly poor the last couple of years, is a respected umpire with over 100 tests of experience. It's a different situation. Anyway, as far as I'm aware nobody has ever lodged an official complaint against Bucknor.C_C said:
Anyway, 90-10 is complete rubbish. There are series where Australia gets the bulk of the calls, for sure... the NZ tour of Australia in 04/05 was a good example. There are also series where Australia doesn't get the bulk of the calls, like the return series in New Zealand, or the Ashes, or the current series. To suggest otherwise without even watching the games or providing a shred of evidence is just absurd.
There's no doubt that Australia are far from saints, but they aren't significantly worse than any other team with most issues you could care to name.C_C said:
With the fielders word thing, it's worth keeping the context in mind. Ricky Ponting requested at the beginning of several tours that the opposing captain make a pact with him that the batsmen of both teams would take the word of the fielders. He did this before the tour of New Zealand in '05, and before the Ashes. Both times he was rejected, and the teams in question said they would take the word of the umpires, and that was it. That's fair enough, but it's relevant because that meant Australia would also take the word of the umpires. That's exactly the point that Gilchrist was making the other day... if Australia says "let's take each others word" and the opposition says "get stuffed", then Australia won't take the word of the opposition either if they don't think its out themselves. That's perfectly valid really, and not hypocritical at all.
For every "break the stumps when not in the frame" I could give you a Roger Harper claiming a catch he picked up off the ground or whatever. The fact is, you can pull out dodgy incidents in isolation from every team, the issue is whether or not Australia do things like claim dodgy catches more than other teams, and the fact is they don't. Pointing out one or two instances over the years doesn't really prove anything.
I'm sure Australia thinks they play hard but fair. I don't think they sit around going "we're a bunch of filthy cheats, but we'll act like we aren't so we don't get in trouble". If you think they do, I'd have to say you're being ridiculous. I don't think Australia are head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of fairness either, I think that there are a few guys in the Australian team who try as hard as they can to be absolutely fair to the opposition regardless of the circumstances (say Gilchrist), and some others who basically do whatever they feel is within the rules to win the game (say Langer). That's what you find in all the teams.
oz_fan
International Regular
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=78107
Langer wants to take part in the first innings. It would be pointless to send him in injured if Lee is the first man to go.
Langer wants to take part in the first innings. It would be pointless to send him in injured if Lee is the first man to go.
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah they got a few, but I'd say in the home series it went more their way than otherwise. Regardless, it certainly wasn't an instance of Australia having the best of the calls, though they certainly had the best of them in the series in Australia.Dasa said:
alternative
Cricket Web Content Updater
on that pitch, anything looks good.. the ball is doing alot, so i would still think if langer is good enough to bat.. he will bat at watever position..
C_C
International Captain
False. India has lodged official complaint against Bucknor TWICE.
I saw OZ vs IND in both IND and OZ for the last 5 series and most recent series apart, it was a 90-10 split for close ones.
Same with PAK in OZ in 99 or so.
Same with NZ in OZ and that was quite blatant.
Its not every single series but its for MOST series so far.
Dude this take the word of fielders deal is relatively new stuff.
And why would ANYONE accept Punter's offer ?
Why on earth would i strike such a deal with a captain who's NEVER walked in his life before, who's VC implores others to walk outta fairplay and then appeals for everything under the sun, who's fwd short leg guy goes and whacks the stumps with his bare hands and then claims an out, etc. etc. ?
No thats where i disagree.
Its significantly more for the OZ than any other team out there and its been so for decades now.
I see more on-field controversy with OZ players than any other team over the last 20-30 years by a light year and half.
I am sure they do too. Most people who are 'wrong' dont think they are 'wrong' either.
Applies to all - petty criminals, racists, bigots, etc etc. doesnt change the fact that OZ players have been in significantly more on-field controversies than any other team over the decades.
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
Can't believe you took the bait Faaip.
This argument isn't going to go anywhere. I dare say decisions that go against Australia's opponents are made to look more crucial then ones that go against Australia because often its that decision that costs the team the chance to beat Australia, whereas Australia with their dominance have gotten many chances to win the match, and the decision going against them effects them less.
Hence why the Ashes decisions against them were so vital, because for once they were not dominant and suddenly they mattered a heck of a lot.
This argument isn't going to go anywhere. I dare say decisions that go against Australia's opponents are made to look more crucial then ones that go against Australia because often its that decision that costs the team the chance to beat Australia, whereas Australia with their dominance have gotten many chances to win the match, and the decision going against them effects them less.
Hence why the Ashes decisions against them were so vital, because for once they were not dominant and suddenly they mattered a heck of a lot.