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***Official*** Australia in New Zealand

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
But the reality is that McMillan just looks like he's being carried in this team right now & James Marshall doesn't appear to have the ability at this level either.

If they're not going to pick Ryder, then surely Fulton as he has played around 4 or 5 seasons now as well as a number of 'A' tours.
 

Blaze

Banned
Kippax said:
I'd be excited to see it, but I wouldn't bet on Ryder making it.

I heard Bracewell on the Deaker show this afternoon go through a long speil about how massive a deal it is to transfrom a domestic cricketer into an international cricketer; changing your playing style, getting used to becoming a public figure, developing the stamina to play 18 months in a row....he went a long way to convincing me that unless Ryder absolutely demands it stats-wise, we won't see him before the WC.

It's a shame, because a season against the Sri Lankan and West Indies attacks is pretty much the Goldilocks situation in terms of giving a young prodigy a realistic stepping stone.

Bracewell's catholic schoolgirl approach to deflowering also ignores the fact that if it wasn't for fears of terrorism, an injury in the West Indies giving Styris a chance to score about 160 runs in his test debut, an injury crisis among the bowlers on the AUS tour of '01, and Parore having strong ambitions in business, then the Marshalls, Styris, Bond and McCullum might not be where they are.

He'd no doubt counter "oh, we knew those guys were much better than their domestic stats", but the truth is their selections were a lot more a*** than class. None of them demanded selection through A tours or in their domestic stats.
Yeah I heard it too. Absolute rubbish from Bracewell. Some people are saying Ryder is our greatest talent since Crowe. That may or may not be true but there is only one way to find out. It seems he isn't interested in expanding his group of players avaliable to him before the world cup which is a huge shame.

I can't believe what he said about the huge transformation from domestic cricket to ODI cricket. Look at what Australia just did in the Chappel Hadlee series. Sure some of their selections didn't pay off but at least they were giving guys a crack.

Ryder (and any other player outside of the black caps) will have to score century after century to make the black caps any time soon.

It really is true what they say about the black caps, - It's harder to get dropped than it is to make the team.

Lol he even defended McMillan.
 

Blaze

Banned
Tim said:
Im guessing they'll pick 13 players for the Sri Lanka series. I think those players will be:

Stephen Fleming (c)
Daniel Vettori
Shane Bond
Chris Cairns
Jacob Oram
Brendon McCullum
Nathan Astle
Scott Styris
Kyle Mills
Hamish Marshall (started to look decent in the 3rd ODI)
Lou Vincent
Chris Martin / Andre Adams (if fit)
Jesse Ryder

thoughts?
Will be? Or Should be? I agree with that side. Marshall deserves to retain his spot. He actually has looked alright in the last couple of games and adds heaps in the field. I wouldn't have Chris Martin in the squad, he is too much of a liability in the field and will get canned if the ball isn't swinging. If Adams is fit then he should be back amongst it.

I have heard many a broadcaster over the last week say that Ross Taylor and Jamie How would be in their sides. I disagree with both. Taylor made 90 last week which is a good sign but he struggled last year and needs to score heavily domestically if he is to have a chance and How dropped off the pace after making all those centuries this time last year.

For me it would be out of Ryder and Fulton and Ryder would get the gig because he seems more suited to the one day game than Fulton who I believe deserves a chance in the test side.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Ross Taylor's time hasn't come yet, but he's got alot of talent for sure.

How has gone the same way as Tim McIntosh in recent times, it's a bit of a concern.
 

Sir Redman

State Vice-Captain
McMillan for mine has to go. He hasn't even looked like scoring this series and looks to have lost it mentally even more than previously. Look at the way he was playing White yesterday. White was dishing up 3 four balls an over yet McMillan was premeditating paddle sweeps to score runs and as a result missing out on free runs. It would be good to see someone like Ryder or Fulton as a replacement for the next series but judging from Bracewell's comments that doesn't look likely.

I thought that Marshall looked good yesterday. I had a feeling he was going to score a 70 odd after he hit that ramp shot for 6 off Johnson but then he got out in quite an unlucky way. It wasn't a very good ball - a wrongun should not be pitching on leg stump - but Marshall got himself in a tangle over it.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
Smith is good. He's right about McCullum too...Smith might harp on too much sometimes, but the fact is..McCullum seems to be taking shortcuts with his keeping and it could cost a wicket at some stage.

The only problem I find is that Smith can easily get drawn into slinging matches with other commentators. I think he's had a couple of run-ins with Tony Grieg, possibly Ian Botham and he's definately had a crack with Martin Crowe a few times.

They say, it's just for fun..but we all know that what can start as fun can end up heated.
 

Macka

U19 Vice-Captain
Does anyone have any insight into what or who has changed Vincent? Previously, he wouldn't attack the bowling at the start of an innings, and he looked average trying to defend. Now, however, he's attacking from the outset, and he looks a completely different player for it.

I think someone else summed it up earlier in the thread (sorry, can't remember who) when they mentioned how much obvious natural talent Vincent has, and how they had never noticed before.
 

Tim

Cricketer Of The Year
I have noticed it since Vincent scored that 170 against Zimbabwe. He obviously decided that from then on he's going to play aggressively.
Although I still think people should be prepared for failures, he's at least showing some intent to get the scoreboard ticking over.

I believe he was rated highly at South Australia when he was at the Academy, Top_Cat would be able to tell you more about what they thought of him back then.
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
Kippax said:
I'd be excited to see it, but I wouldn't bet on Ryder making it.

Just heard Bracewell on the Deaker show this afternoon go through a long spiel about how massive a deal it is to transform a domestic cricketer into an international cricketer; changing your playing style, getting used to becoming a public figure, developing the stamina to play 18 months in a row....he went a long way to convincing me that unless Ryder absolutely demands it stats-wise, we won't see him before the WC.

It's a shame, because a season against the Sri Lankan and West Indies attacks is pretty much the Goldilocks situation in terms of giving a young prodigy a realistic stepping stone.

Bracewell's catholic schoolgirl approach to deflowering also ignores the fact that if it wasn't for fears of terrorism, an injury in the West Indies giving Styris a chance to score about 160 runs in his test debut, an injury crisis among the bowlers on the AUS tour of '01, and Parore having strong ambitions in business, then the Marshalls, Styris, Bond and McCullum might not be where they are.

He'd no doubt counter "oh, we knew those guys were much better than their domestic stats", but the truth is their selections were a lot more a*** than class. None of them demanded selection through A tours or in their domestic stats.
Very well put, Kippax.

He was placing himself on a lofty pedestal as well, by saying the general public simply doesn't understand what it takes to be an international cricketer. Obviously foot movement isn't one of the things it takes, or McMillan would be out of the side...
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Macka said:
Does anyone have any insight into what or who has changed Vincent? Previously, he wouldn't attack the bowling at the start of an innings, and he looked average trying to defend. Now, however, he's attacking from the outset, and he looks a completely different player for it.
Reading your post I was reminded of this feature article, which I think provides the insight you're after...

Copyright Independent Newspapers, Ltd. Nov 25, 2005
LOU VINCENT isn't everyone's cup of tea. Too flighty for some, too hit-and-miss for others.

But if you've never been part of the Vincent fan club, give yourself another six months before you give up for good.

For the first time in his career, Vincent starts a home summer as an established member of the New Zealand test and one-day set-ups.

This time last year he was playing his ninth club game for Takapuna, was worried about scoring runs for Auckland and had that age-old question mark next to his name on the national selection panel's blackboard.

"I'm not sure if `established' is the right word but it's been a while since I've been in this position, where you go into a series with a few runs behind you," Vincent said ahead of the Chappell- Hadlee one-day series opener against Australia in Auckland on December 3.

"It's a nice feeling and I'm happy with my batting, now I just need to keep it going.

"Looking back on my career, I cringe about the way I played at times, but at 22 coming into the team and trying to learn the game was hard.

"Coming back more experienced I just feel a better player. More fine-tuned, older and better."

Vincent topped the one-day batting averages in South Africa with 167 runs at 41.75.

He scored 90 at Cape Town and 66 in the final match in Centurion, innings that had a certain precarious quality about them.

Always ready with a quip, Vincent disputes a reference to chasing the South African bowlers from ball one at Centurion.

"I went too hard too early in Port Elizabeth and paid the price, so I actually waited until the sixth ball at Centurion."

Vincent, 27, maintains he is batting to a plan when he heads to the middle.

"If we've lost a wicket with the power plays still in place I can come out and establish a run rate and if I'm still in, when the field is out, I can milk it around.

"John Bracewell (coach) has given me a good role at the top, to play it how I see it and let the natural shots come out.

"I'm to use my judgment and my instinct. I'm always going to be an attacking player so it's good being told to go and play with confidence."

Much has been made of Vincent's return from the international wilderness last summer. He admits the time out allowed him to develop some consistency.

But if one innings made him feel more at home at the top level it was a swashbuckling 40 off 33 balls in the third test loss to Australia at Eden Park toward the end of last summer.

New Zealand were sliding to defeat but for 55 minutes Vincent carted Jason Gillespie and Michael Kasprowicz to all parts.

"During that series I was trying to bat time and when you do that you just get worked over -- you have to put pressure on their bowlers.

"That innings could be a turning point in my international rebirth. I got 63 in Wellington but up in Auckland I took it to them.

"All of sudden I got a short one and a half-volley and I thought, `See what happens when you have intent'.

"That started things off. Having a beer with the Aussies after that day they said, `We didn't know what to do', so that gave me a bit of encouragement.".


A fortnight later Vincent scored 232 against Sri Lanka at the Basin Reserve.

That knock came in the middle order but a few months later the unthinkable happened -- Vincent was back opening in test matches, against Zimbabwe.

Vincent is reluctant to get bogged down on the issue with the next test still three and a bit months away (against the West Indies), though he tosses in he will be batting at No 4 for Auckland in the first-class competition.

"Who knows what is going to happen this summer. There are some smart heads in the New Zealand set-up -- they are looking to make sure they get the right balance but it's a long way away to the test matches."
 
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Macka

U19 Vice-Captain
Kippax said:
Reading your post I was reminded of this feature article, which I think provides the insight you're after...
Cheers, mate. "I went too hard too early in Port Elizabeth and paid the price, so I actually waited until the sixth ball at Centurion." Great quote.
 

Ming

State 12th Man
Tim said:
Smith is good. He's right about McCullum too...Smith might harp on too much sometimes, but the fact is..McCullum seems to be taking shortcuts with his keeping and it could cost a wicket at some stage.

The only problem I find is that Smith can easily get drawn into slinging matches with other commentators. I think he's had a couple of run-ins with Tony Grieg, possibly Ian Botham and he's definately had a crack with Martin Crowe a few times.

They say, it's just for fun..but we all know that what can start as fun can end up heated.
Told ya Marshall will come good, even though he only scored 20, he actually looked like scoring runs unlike McMillan who's only got two shots - the nearly always unsuccessful guide to 3rd man and the big swipe which only succeeds when he is in the zone, which only happens against Bangladesh and Zimbawe.

McCullum said in the paper today that he wants to continue in the 'finishing role' instead of opening. Hopefully he can move one or two spots higher to 6 or 7 where he can play a bigger role in the innings.

Even though I want McMillan to be dropped, Bracewell won't drop him, and will most likely point to the fact that he has average over 30 for the past 10 to 15 ODIs.
 

Craig

World Traveller
Jono said:
Lol its 2:20 am here, I'm working tomorrow (granted midday start) and I have no idea why I am still awake. I've had a day choc full of cricket (Played for my club, watched NZ vs. Aus and Eng vs. Pak and followed Ind vs. SL on the internet), yet I'm still on this board talking more about cricket. :p
Lack of life? :p
 

ohtani's jacket

State Vice-Captain
Ian Smith is a terrible commentator.

Listening to Smith is morbid and depressing, not only because of his pessimism, but because he has to micro manage everything as though he were captain and coach. The problem with commentators like Smith is that they lose sight of the bigger picture. He wrote us off when Oram and Styris were dismissed, then had the audacity to predict a win after the fact... A commentator less obsessed with the state of NZ cricket, like the great Bill Lawry, would've realised that we were close enough if we backed ourselves... Just like Australians always back themselves.

Not Smithie. He's a realist.
 

Blaze

Banned
Lol Bill Lawry a great commentator? BANG!!!!!!

He talks no sense, although I will admit he does get excited. Lawry constantly talks down the opposition and anything Australia do is god-like. He is so biased that I actually find him amusing and don't mind him in the box but he doesn't make too many 'great' comments.

Smith knows a lot about the game. I guess I just appreciate his opinion on game situations, players techniques and plans etc.

Out of the channel 9 lot I like Greig would be my favourite (when he actually talks cricket) with Benaud and Chappel close behind.

Healy and Tubby have their moments but overall are fairly dull.. Slats deserves a spot on the team.
 

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