***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

[howardj]

McGrath hasn't had the chance. He didn't play in two tests, and he was unfit at Old Trafford and the conditions didn't suit swing or seam bowling anyway. This is the first opportunity he's had, and it's been cut short by the bad light call. I find it a bit ridiculous to rate any seamer in the world ahead of McGrath when conditions are helpful actually, because it's plainly obvious that nobody comes close.

.

That's my point. Frankly, I agree, I don't think any of the pitches so far have necessarily suited conventional swing or seam bowling. Rather, the pitches that have been served up - particularly at Edgbaston and Old Trafford - have really required resourcefulness from the bowlers. That's where England's ability to reverse swing the ball has really come to the fore. There's no doubt that they are better at it than Australia (McGrath included) and can get it to go reverse much earlier than the Australian bowlers. (McGrath included).

 

[Jono]

Time to allow my input into this debate, and I'm fairly neutral (granted I'm Australian, but I'm an Indian supporter and have been hoping for an England win this series). In my opinion its pretty silly to aim any criticism at Vaughan for taking the light. All the criticism in the world can be aimed at him for the substitution issue which was raised last test in regards to being not in the spirit of cricket, but as captain of England who has the opportunity to win the Ashes and topple Australia, a feat not achieved for something like 15 years, I see him doing nothing that most captains would do. And even if some captains wouldn't have (I saw someone here mention Waugh and Taylor as examples) that doesn't mean Vaughan's decision was 'against the spirit of the game'. If that's the case, everytime someone goes off for the light when it is in their team's best interests are not playing in the spirit of the game. If that is someone's viewpoint, well then I think they're flat out wrong.

The criticism aimed at the umpires I can understand, but at the same time I believe its way overblown. What the problems are is the clarity of the issue. This occurred in South Africa back in December/January, and various English members were flagrantly angered (granted Vaughan didn't get a chance to bowl his spinners) but no one blamed Smith to my knowledge. They were rather irritated by the current laws. I think we need a flat out obvious ruling stating if the umpires believe playing on with the current light conditions is physically dangerous, they can offer it to the batsman. The question is, is it only about safety or rather "fair conditions?" I think its the latter, and thus a clear law should be written out exemplifying that. Whether Shane Warne can hurt someone or not, if the law's aim is to allow the batsman every opportunity to be able to see the ball clearly whilst batting, then it should say it straight up.

Now the question is, was the light that bad that with spinners bowling the batsmen couldn't see the ball properly. If that's the case, the right decision was made IMO (assuming that's what the law aims to do, provide fair conditions and not just safety).

 

[superkingdave]

Now the question is, was the light that bad that with spinners bowling the batsmen couldn't see the ball properly. If that's the case, the right decision was made IMO (assuming that's what the law aims to do, provide fair conditions and not just safety).

yes the third umpire sent out a message to say that the umpires thought that there was a problem for the batsmen in picking up the flight of the ball thats why they came off the second time.

I hope it clears up soon, its pretty nice here, we could get an hour in before the close

 

[Slow Love™]

Time to allow my input into this debate, and I'm fairly neutral (granted I'm Australian, but I'm an Indian supporter and have been hoping for an England win this series). In my opinion its pretty silly to aim any criticism at Vaughan for taking the light. All the criticism in the world can be aimed at him for the substitution issue which was raised last test in regards to being not in the spirit of cricket, but as captain of England who has the opportunity to win the Ashes and topple Australia, a feat not achieved for something like 15 years, I see him doing nothing that most captains would do. And even if some captains wouldn't have (I saw someone here mention Waugh and Taylor as examples) that doesn't mean Vaughan's decision was 'against the spirit of the game'. If that's the case, everytime someone goes off for the light when it is in their team's best interests are not playing in the spirit of the game. If that is someone's viewpoint, well then I think they're flat out wrong.

The criticism aimed at the umpires I can understand, but at the same time I believe its way overblown. What the problems are is the clarity of the issue. This occurred in South Africa back in December/January, and various English members were flagrantly angered (granted Vaughan didn't get a chance to bowl his spinners) but no one blamed Smith to my knowledge. They were rather irritated by the current laws. I think we need a flat out obvious ruling stating if the umpires believe playing on with the current light conditions is physically dangerous, they can offer it to the batsman. The question is, is it only about safety or rather "fair conditions?" I think its the latter, and thus a clear law should be written out exemplifying that. Whether Shane Warne can hurt someone or not, if the law's aim is to allow the batsman every opportunity to be able to see the ball clearly whilst batting, then it should say it straight up.

Now the question is, was the light that bad that with spinners bowling the batsmen couldn't see the ball properly. If that's the case, the right decision was made IMO (assuming that's what the law aims to do, provide fair conditions and not just safety).

Spot on on all counts.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Very overcast here. I'm about 70 miles from The Oval &, if the light there is anything like it is here, telly doesn't do justice to how dark it actually is now.

I'd be quite surprised to see anymore play today.

 

[howardj]

Very overcast here. I'm about 70 miles from The Oval &, if the light there is anything like it is here, telly doesn't do justice to how dark it actually is now.

I'd be quite surprised to see anymore play today.

Based on that, I think the Ashes are pretty much Englands.

 

[superkingdave]

well they just showed Nicholas in the studio but you could see through the window and it looked very dark outside

 

[Slow Love™]

If we could have batted on today, things might have been different (with the assumption that the light wasn't absolutely diabolical, in which case we would have no right to complain that the English players went off anyway). Were we to have built up a 150-200 lead, we could still be walking into tomorrow with some chance of victory.

But as has been the case so many times in this series, just when we looked like launching off, England struck back and took wickets in groups. When they bowled us out a little after lunch we knew we were in desperate trouble. When England have really needed to pull something out of the hat, they've often been able to do it, and IMO, you can't begrudge them this series victory (as looks very likely). We're spending too much time griping about something we straight out knew would happen if we didn't manage to bat on, instead of realising that England (and particularly Flintoff) had already made it pretty unlikely that we could win this game by virtue of their impressive fightback (and one or two less than impressive shots from our batsmen).

 

[greg]

McGrath hasn't had the chance. He didn't play in two tests, and he was unfit at Old Trafford and the conditions didn't suit swing or seam bowling anyway. This is the first opportunity he's had, and it's been cut short by the bad light call. I find it a bit ridiculous to rate any seamer in the world ahead of McGrath when conditions are helpful actually, because it's plainly obvious that nobody comes close.

Lee obviously isn't your man for sustained pressure and neither is Tait, but they can both swing it, particularly Tait.

McGrath's good, but frankly I don't think even he would have been more dangerous than Flintoff today.

 

[greg]

Let's settle this debate on the light once and for all.

The laws specifically include perceived danger to the umpires. If they can't see the ball then they can go off whenever they want, whoever is bowling

 

[Demolition Man]

Okay , which one of you was it ................................
Cricketers receive death threats
From correspondents in London
September 12, 2005

AUSTRALIA'S cricketers were sent death threats via an email address during their Ashes tour of England, it has been revealed.

Police at Scotland Yard have since apprehended a 32-year-old from Stoke-on-Trent, in England's West Midlands, who is alleged to have sent the threats to the players via a Cricket Australia (CA) email address.

A police spokesman said the man was arrested "in connection with an allegation of making threats to kill. It appears the Australian cricket team was the target."

The man was arrested on Friday and was later released on bail to appear before a local court on October 27. He has not been charged with any offence.

The police spokesman said Scotland Yard's Computer Crime Unit was handling the investigation.

It is understood the man was tracked down via the email address.

A CA spokesman said: "Obviously it's highly concerning and Cricket Australia acted immediately.

"There is a set procedure for dealing with these matters and that's currently being dealt with by the relevant authorities.

Advertisement:
"Given it is now a police matter, it is inappropriate to comment further."

AAP

 

[Jamee999]

It's closest to Marc

 

[aussie]

this is so unfair i'm going to puke man, why does it have to be like this now Australia's hope of retaining the Ashes lies on tommorow. I'll be praying so hard tonight that rain or no other stupid interrupations happens tommorow, it just cant.

It simple Australia just have to bowl England out for no less than 200 i reckon & chase it down in whatever time they have, goodness why does this Ashes series have to be like this, buggers i'm too young for all this ****ing stress........

 

[greg]

this is so unfair i'm going to puke man, why does it have to be like this now Australia's hope of retaining the Ashes lies on tommorow. I'll be praying so hard tonight that rain or no other stupid interrupations happens tommorow, it just cant.

It simple Australia just have to bowl England out for no less than 200 i reckon & chase it down in whatever time they have, goodness why does this Ashes series have to be like this, buggers i'm too young for all this ****ing stress........

Australia have been saved by the weather! They are not in a good position in this match

 

[aussie]

Australia have been saved by the weather! They are not in a good position in this match

i'm just sooooo not in the mood for jokes especially facing the fact that England could actually win the ashes tommorow

 

[luckyeddie]

Match report

Day 4 match report

I'll check it later - I've got a date with a hot curry.

 

[nick-o]

Although it's interesting to see the Aussie supporters here being so glum, I still think it's premature.

Effectively there are about 100 overs left, and for England to prevent an Aussie victory they have to bat for at least 60 of those overs I reckon. Anything less and Aus will surely have time to knock off whatever runs are needed.

In the four tests so far, Eng have been all out in less than 60 overs in two of their second innings; they were seven down after just 32 overs in another. Only once have they survived for more than 60.

I'd say the odds were still in favor of an Aus victory with Warne and McGrath fired up for their last tests on English soil. I'd still say there is zero chance of an Eng win, as I don't for one minute think we'll go for it.

So cheer up -- everything still to play for. Everything will turn on whether the current pair survive the first hour.

 

[marc71178]

I wouldn't expect a side like Australia to get bowled out in 110 overs, provided the pitch isn't as bad as the one at Mumbai.

I believe that they've only lasted that long once all series.

 

[marc71178]

Its the fact that the middle order has shown zero application all series that begins to grate, Martyn hasn't contributed, Gilly has been embarassing, Kat has his moments but just not reliable enough.

Clarke goes cheaply when his team needs him, poor old warney misses out, but no blame there.

Interesting that no blame on Warne when he got himself out, but the likes of Gilchrist and Katich were undone by good bowling and do get criticism...

 

[Tom Halsey]

I agree. It's only a cloud. Soft fecking southerner Trescothick. Vaughan obviously spends too much time down there, too. He's starting to look more and more Southern

Nah, still Northern, looks too gormless to be Southern.