***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

[Arrow]

England are fully rotating their bowlers . Now Harmison is having a breather lol

 

[social]

Fair enough - Eng have given them so many opportunities and they've never complained. They're getting what they deserve.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Gee, I wonder what Harmison's injury that's got the fielding coach on the field is?

 

[scottcraze]

Err. Clarke had a back injury and wasn't even at the ground. That's a bit different from Harmison going off to put his feet up for 10 minutes, isn't it?

Yes but I can't really see the difference, its lucky that Clarkes a batsmen if he were a bowler his replacement wouldnt be able to bowl and you'd be down to three bowlers, his back was bad I know but he still batted when he was off the ground the whole time. If he were a bowler he would be timed out so to speak. People have used specialist substitute fielders many times. Oh as I speak we're taking the **** by bring on Trevor Penney.

 

[aussie]

Gee, I wonder what Harmison's injury that's got the fielding coach on the field is?

beats me

 

[BoyBrumby]

I don't think there's much doubt about it really. England have been doing it since the first ODI of the NatWest series with Vikram Solanki. The problem is that as it's clearly against the rules Ponting should have pointed it out and done something about it before now. I've even seen John Buchanan mention it in an interview, without any discussion of what Australia was doing about it.

Anyway, there's no doubt that the run-out and subsequent Martyn wicket are definitive. Ponting was the one guy you could really see batting for 5 hours and making a huge score, and he's gone now. Any hope Australia might have had of going to stumps even and setting a target are gone now, it's just a matter of time.

I do agree, actually. We were certainly sailing rather close to the wind in the ODIs. I think Jones must be genuinely injured tho, or he'd be bowling now.

Thought Punter's show of dissent was pretty poor form tho. In today's Guardian Gideon Haigh reminds us that two years ago Australia voluntarily signed up to their own version of "the spirit of cricket" which included a promise to "accept all umpiring decisions as a mark of respect for our opponents, the umpires, ourselves and the game". Hmmm.

Full article here:

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/ashes2005/story/0,15993,1557349,00.html

 

[Majin]

I agree with Geoff Boycott.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Yes but I can't really see the difference, its lucky that Clarkes a batsmen if he were a bowler his replacement wouldnt be able to bowl and you'd be down to three bowlers, his back was bad I know but he still batted when he was off the ground the whole time. If he were a bowler he would be timed out so to speak. People have used specialist substitute fielders many times. Oh as I speak we're taking the **** by bring on Trevor Penney.

Clarke was pushed down the order. The rules state that if a player is off the field for an extended period of time they can't bowl for the length they were off, and can't bat any higher than number 7, which is what Clarke did. There's no problem in the rules with bringing on a sub for a player with an injury or illness sustained in the match, but if someone is just tired or wants to change their boots or something they don't get a sub, simple as that. It's entirely Australia's fault for not doing something to make England obey the rules in reality, but technically under the laws it is actually the responsibility of the umpires to monitor it.

To quote the laws, firstly...

If a fielder fails to take the field with his side at the start of the match or at any later time, or leaves the field during a session of play,

(a) the umpire shall be informed of the reason for his absence.
(b) he shall not thereafter come on to the field during a session of play without the consent of the umpire. See 6 below. The umpire shall give such consent as soon as is practicable.

And then...

The opposing captain shall have no right of objection to any player acting as a substitute on the field, nor as to where the substitute shall field. However, no substitute shall act as wicket-keeper. See 3 below.


So really, there's nothing Ponting should under the rules have needed to do about it, as the umpires should be monitoring it on their own.

 

[luckyeddie]

Ponting shouldnt be complaining about Eng's use of 12th men - they've done it all summer and he should've complained well before now if he had a problem.

Exactly. What have England got to gain having Simon Jones in the dressing-room having just bowled 4 blooming overs in the innings? If he wasn't injured, he'd be on the field running through the Australian batting line-up for the n th time in the series.

 

[Majin]

If the umpire's are informed of the reasons the players are being sent off the pitch then they obviously have no objection to any of it, so Ponting has nothing to complain about.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

If the umpire's are informed of the reasons the players are being sent off the pitch then they obviously have no objection to any of it, so Ponting has nothing to complain about.

I'm sure Ponting knows the rules as well. Nobody knows exactly what was said, but my guess is he feels in some way that the umpires are not enforcing the rules properly, meaning maybe that they aren't getting reasons for fielders going off, or that they are allowing a sub on the field for someone who shouldn't get one. I can't imagine what possible reason Harmison would have had for going off the field for 8 minutes between spells and then coming back on, and getting a sub in between. What did he have, a really short-term virus? It's clearly not within the rules and Ponting would have been upset about the fact that the sub has been consistently allowed on the field for players who are not injured. Jones obviously is a different case, but it's far from the first time Pratt has been on the field, and bringing on the fielding coach as well for a guy who is bowling 10 minutes later is a joke.

 

[Majin]

If it's in the laws that the umpire has to be informed of the reason for the player leaving the field, and then decides whether that reason is good enough for the player to go off, Harmison must have gone off for something the Umpire's deemed worthy of letting him go off for. If they are just letting them go off for tea breaks or something then that's clearly wrong and they shouldn't be umpiring, but I highly doubt that is the case. Whatever the case is, as far as all of us know there is nothing illegal happening, and if there is we'll find out about it soon enough.

 

[luckyeddie]

You are entitled to a substitute fielder - it seems that what people are objecting to here is that the substitute happens to be good.

News is that Simon Jones in in hospital.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Exactly. What have England got to gain having Simon Jones in the dressing-room having just bowled 4 blooming overs in the innings? If he wasn't injured, he'd be on the field running through the Australian batting line-up for the n th time in the series.

He's got an injured ankle. To quote cricinfo: Further updates when he returns to the field.

So that'd be in a couple of months, then.

 

[BoyBrumby]

& Jonah's off to hospital for a scan on his ankle. Willies. Hope it's nothing too serious.

 

[social]

You are entitled to a substitute fielder - it seems that what people are objecting to here is that the substitute happens to be good.

News is that Simon Jones in in hospital.

Unless you're injured and/or have a justifiable reason, you're not.

Laws specifically prohibit change of clothing, etc

In other words , you need a bloody good reason.

Unfortunately, it's rarely been enforced in the history of cricket so Eng are smart in taking advantage of it.

Anyway, it's only an issue because Martyn decided to call for a run that was never on.

 

[aussie]

Come on Pup dont give it away....

 

[The Baconator]

Jones misses a stumping, Clarke lucky to still be there.

 

[Majin]

Jones is lucky he scored 85, very lucky. >=\

 

[aussie]

i dont know why Clarke bats like this, he looks so good then suddenly he plays a wild shot like that, it really isn't good for my heart