***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

[marc71178]

Whatever the reason for it is, if you write off Lee for going for 111 off 17 on a wicket that didn't suit him, you also have to write off Harmison for his various phases of being smashed everywhere and barely landing it on the strip, Warne for getting absolutely pulverised on his tour of India in 1998 (I don't recall his figured in the tour match against Mumbai, but I think he got taken for about a dozen an over), Tait for his horrible stint at Durham, etc etc. The fact is that he bowled very poorly today and didn't deal with the conditions... you can't conclude from this that he's incapable of being an effective test bowler, any more than you can with the other examples.

edit: haha, I just went and looked up the Mumbia game. Mumbia made 400 odd in 80 overs, Tendulkar 204 off 192 balls, and Warne's figures? 0/111! Off 16 overs.

The difference is that Harmison and Warne have both had good performances in their career to the extent that you couldn't consider an attack with them not selected.

Lee has been poor for a long long time, and those sort of figures in his first real challenge on return suggest that maybe he's not actully that good?

 

[Shane Warne]

What a pathetic little man you are

Then zip up your fly and don't beat yourself up about it.

 

[marc71178]

Giles also gets more bad decisions in his favor when he's bowling, than Warne or Murali.

What utter rubbish you speak.

 

[Top_Cat]

Shane Warne and all those baiting him

Simple message; STOP. Now.

 

[Tom Halsey]

And you are as bent as the goal line in your pathetic avatar.

Now go kill yourself.

That isn't the smartest reply if you don't want to get banned...

And my avatar is in no way pathetic.

 

[a massive zebra]

Shane Warne and all those baiting him

Simple message; STOP. Now.

Even Mr. Sanders?

 

[Top_Cat]

Even Mr. Sanders?

The fact I'm using the word 'all' is pretty unambiguous.

 

[luckyeddie]

Even Mr. Sanders?

Hey - I am trying very hard to stop him getting himself banned.

 

[aussie]

yep and these are the sort of pitches hes been scoring runs on all his career

even more reason why he should get a hundred

 

[twctopcat]

Then zip up your fly and don't beat yourself up about it.

I need your book seriously badly...you must have found a real good website.

 

[social]

except for the fact that it wasnt hot & sunny at the toss. it was overcast, and given how much caddick and hoggard rely on swing, it wasnt the worst of decisions IMO. unfortunately for him, the sun came out 10 minutes later.

Agreed TEC.

At Brisbane, many would have contemplated sending the oppo in but most would have taken the safer route and batted.

Here, no-one except the Aussies would have contemplated it, let alone actually done it.

Aus got out of it really lightly with 407.

They could/should have been facing something much bigger.

As it is, 407 is still a good score but really only worth 325 - 350 under normal conditions (ground is tiny with fast outfield and flat deck). However, much depends on the pitch over the next 1.5 days.

Similar conditions, and they could bat England out of the game.

If it deteriorates like everyone says it usually does, Aus could be in real trouble come the 4th innings.

 

[Mister Wright]

Basically, in the morning he struggled mightily, for whatever reason. He was obviously trying to get it to swing in the morning, but it wouldn't go for whatever reason for any of the bowlers. As a result he overpitched and got thrashed around, and he was also extremely wayward both in line and length, in both of his morning spells. I think in the afternoon he was really pretty good. His pace was better, and he bowled some brilliant bouncers to Flintoff and really deserved a wicket.

I certainly wouldn't write him off yet. He was very good at Lords, and one poor day doesn't undo that any more than one good test makes him a world class test bowler. I'm waiting to see how he goes if and when he gets a wicket. It's a featherbed totally unsuited to Lee anyway, not only in the same way it is for the other bowlers, but particularly for his style of bowling because it is so slow and low.

Just face it, if the conditions aren't in Lee's favour he's no good in test match cricket. Some of the balls he bowled today were terrible. "Oh, I just got hooked for six, I'll dig it in short again because that'll unsettle the batsman" next thing he's being hit for six again, stupid stuff, and not what you want from your test bowler, especially when bowling to two agressive batsman.

 

[Top_Cat]

Just face it, if the conditions aren't in Lee's favour he's no good in test match cricket. Some of the balls he bowled today were terrible. "Oh, I just got hooked for six, I'll dig it in short again because that'll unsettle the batsman" next thing he's being hit for six again, stupid stuff, and not what you want from your test bowler, especially when bowling to two agressive batsman.

Agreed. He was two-lengths all day. Bowled really badly. His figures accurately reflect his day. Not saying he's not up to Test cricket just that he was either short or full and rarely in between.

 

[Mister Wright]

Agreed. He was two-lengths all day. Bowled really badly. His figures accurately reflect his day. Not saying he's not up to Test cricket just that he was either short or full and rarely in between.

Yeah, exactly. I think people got far too carried away with his form in the one dayers, they are two different games, especially for a bowler as quick as he is. In test matches if you aren't taking wickets you need to be economical and Lee just doesn't do that. We're lucky we had Kasprowicz last night, If we had of been without him and McGrath didn't take wickets we could have been in a lot worse situation. Kasprowicz showed his value with the old ball cannot be underestimated. Looks like this will be the same attack for the 3rd test with McGrath unlikely to be fit enough in a week.

 

[social]

Yeah, exactly. I think people got far too carried away with his form in the one dayers, they are two different games, especially for a bowler as quick as he is. In test matches if you aren't taking wickets you need to be economical and Lee just doesn't do that. We're lucky we had Kasprowicz last night, If we had of been without him and McGrath didn't take wickets we could have been in a lot worse situation. Kasprowicz showed his value with the old ball cannot be underestimated. Looks like this will be the same attack for the 3rd test with McGrath unlikely to be fit enough in a week.

To be fair, whilst Kaspa has the happy knack of producing wicket-taking deliveries, he also bowled a lot of trash last night.

For mine, Gillespie was far and away the best of the seamers whilst Warne bowled OK in largely unhelpful conditions.

 

[Mister Wright]

To be fair, whilst Kaspa has the happy knack of producing wicket-taking deliveries, he also bowled a lot of trash last night.

For mine, Gillespie was far and away the best of the seamers whilst Warne bowled OK in largely unhelpful conditions.

Kaspa did bowl some poor deliveries, but nowhere near as many as Lee. Kaspa's team mates didn't help him out, misfields and Clarke's over throws. Definitely bowled better than Lee.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Lee was bowling genuine half volleys, as opposed to Kasprowicz and Gillespie who were at least making the batsmen drive on the up.

Shows how conducive conditions need to be for Lee to swing a red ball. Someone like a Hoggard or a Fleming would have swung it for fun yesterday.

 

[Mister Wright]

Lee was bowling genuine half volleys, as opposed to Kasprowicz and Gillespie who were at least making the batsmen drive on the up.

Shows how conducive conditions need to be for Lee to swing a red ball. Someone like a Hoggard or a Fleming would have swung it for fun yesterday.

Yeah good point. That was when Lee got it on the pitch though.

 

[social]

Kaspa did bowl some poor deliveries, but nowhere near as many as Lee. Kaspa's team mates didn't help him out, misfields and Clarke's over throws. Definitely bowled better than Lee.

No debate.

Lee, Ponting (captaincy) and some of our fielding was abysmal.

Only bright spots are the fact that we bowled England out and will therefore be able to bat for an extended period before wicket deteriorates too much.

Despite the fact that they scored 407, which might turn out to be a good score, I've got the feeling that England would think they've missed an opportunity to put the game out of Aus' reach.

 

[social]

Lee was bowling genuine half volleys, as opposed to Kasprowicz and Gillespie who were at least making the batsmen drive on the up.

Shows how conducive conditions need to be for Lee to swing a red ball. Someone like a Hoggard or a Fleming would have swung it for fun yesterday.

In the case of Hoggard, I dont think so.

Based on the first test, he would've been cannon-fodder yesterday.

I think the danger men are Jones and Giles later in the match.