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***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

FaaipDeOiad

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Scaly piscine said:
Based on what evidence? We know from previous performances that Key and Butcher are a waste of space, coupled with their obviously 'brilliant' fielding. Joyce and Collingwood are pretty much unknowns when it comes to Test cricket.
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Butcher at least has international experience, some success against Australia, and can be relied on not to throw his wicket away pointlessly, even if he isn't rolling in natural talent. Key hasn't done much in test cricket, but he's not been a complete failure either. When it comes down to it, if England were in desperate need he'd be a fair pick. Joyce is clearly the top uncapped batsmen in the CC, and everyone (including Warne) has picked him out as a future test player. Collingwood averages 32 in first class cricket, and the same in ODIs, where he's been a fair finisher but has never looked test class with the bat. His bowling wouldn't really be of much use unless the pitch was a really nasty one, and while his fielding would be useful you don't make a test side on fielding alone. As a pure batsmen, Collingwood isn't even close.
 
Pedro Delgado

Pedro Delgado

International Debutant
FaaipDeOiad said:
Butcher at least has international experience, some success against Australia, and can be relied on not to throw his wicket away pointlessly
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Are you sure you're not mixing him up with your local butcher? If he can be relied upon to do anything, it's exactly that.
 
Pedro Delgado

Pedro Delgado

International Debutant
Shane Warne said:
You should be completely flacid and in need of a viagra overdose.

He's an average county journeyman.
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No, he's a superb fieldsman, a good finisher with the bat, and can bowl a little, in ODI's.
Not a Test player though, just like Bevan.
 
FaaipDeOiad

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Pedro Delgado said:
No, he's a superb fieldsman, a good finisher with the bat, and can bowl a little, in ODI's.
Not a Test player though, just like Bevan.
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The difference is, Bevan averages 58 and a half in first class cricket, while Collingwood averages 32. Bevan has 67 first class centuries in 227 matches, while Collingwood has played around half as many and just hit his 12th. There's just no comparison between them at all as players, Bevan didn't perform in tests in the end, but obviously his phenomenal success in first class and ODI cricket warranted a decent run in the test team. Collingwood hasn't set the world alight in any discipline at any level, and I can't think of a single reason (assuming here that we don't rate his bowling) why he deserve a test shot ahead of Ed Joyce.
 
Pedro Delgado

Pedro Delgado

International Debutant
FaaipDeOiad said:
The difference is, Bevan averages 58 and a half in first class cricket, while Collingwood averages 32. Bevan has 67 first class centuries in 227 matches, while Collingwood has played around half as many and just hit his 12th. There's just no comparison between them at all as players, Bevan didn't perform in tests in the end, but obviously his phenomenal success in first class and ODI cricket warranted a decent run in the test team. Collingwood hasn't set the world alight in any discipline at any level, and I can't think of a single reason (assuming here that we don't rate his bowling) why he deserve a test shot ahead of Ed Joyce.
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Yeah, just trying to wind SW up 'cos he's a kn0b. I wasn't really expecting a gentleman to take up the baton.
 
Pedro Delgado

Pedro Delgado

International Debutant
Shane Warne said:
Collingwood's not fit to carry Bevans jock.
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Possibly, but he's still a very good ODI player and not a "county journeyman" as you had it.
FWIW I loved watching Bev play, shame he was about as good as Giles at the short stuff.
 
FaaipDeOiad

FaaipDeOiad

Hall of Fame Member
Pedro Delgado said:
Possibly, but he's still a very good ODI player and not a "county journeyman" as you had it.
FWIW I loved watching Bev play, shame he was about as good as Giles at the short stuff.
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It's a funny thing you know... I can't imagine for the life of me how anybody who couldn't play short pitched bowling managed to average close to 60 in FC cricket. Obviously he improved at it as the years went by, but it's not like he didn't face bowlers quite capable of bowling short at him in Australia and England in domestic cricket over the years and score bucketloads of runs against them, just at test level guys like Dean Headley managed to psych him out with it. Just one of those little mysteries I guess. He broke the run scoring record in the Pura Cup last year as well, so he's still at it.
 
Pedro Delgado

Pedro Delgado

International Debutant
Aye. Hick's average must be not too far off Bevan's in FC, and he had a similar problem. If one took a selected highlights package of them both, they'd have all the shots and a splendid technique, but stick 'em in the Test arena... most odd that.
 
T

tooextracool

International Coach
FaaipDeOiad said:
Collingwood shouldn't play test cricket. He's just not a good enough batsman. England have a lot of better options, and I'd rather see Joyce, Key, Butcher or any number of other people before Collingwood.
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butcher isnt fit.
 
T

tooextracool

International Coach
FaaipDeOiad said:
Butcher at least has international experience, some success against Australia, and can be relied on not to throw his wicket away pointlessly, even if he isn't rolling in natural talent.
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havent watched much of mark butcher have you?
 
marc71178

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
To be fair, Collingwood is in superb form for Durham, and didn't do too bad against Australia in the One Dayers.
 
T

tooextracool

International Coach
marc71178 said:
To be fair, Collingwood is in superb form for Durham, and didn't do too bad against Australia in the One Dayers.
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or rather he played 1 good knock.
scoring 14,0,53(playing an absolutely atrocious shot in the circumstances early on only to get dropped), 34 and 9 at an average of 22 isnt something to shout about.
 
S

Shane Warne

Banned
tooextracool said:
or rather he played 1 good knock.
scoring 14,0,53(playing an absolutely atrocious shot in the circumstances early on only to get dropped), 34 and 9 at an average of 22 isnt something to shout about.
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Exactly.

I guess if we point it out enough, these morons will eventually get it.
 
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