***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

[aussie]

We where poor Batting, we bowled well but Pietersen dropped catch may have cost us, Aussies have the best 2 bowlers in the last 15 years in McGrath and Warne they have taken 900 test wickets between them... there no need to panic

But i will make 2 changes to the 12 man squad Drop Giles for Joyce and G Jnoes for Read

i wouldn't drop giles form the 12, their could be a case for the selectors increasing the team to 13 but i would bring in Collingwood instead of Joyce for sure.

One more in this debate about the keepers a disagree that Jones should be dropped for Read....

 

[Barney Rubble]

i wouldn't drop giles form the 12, their could be a case for the selectors increasing the team to 13 but i would bring in Collingwood instead of Joyce for sure.

One more in this debate about the keepers a disagree that Jones should be dropped for Read....

One thing Joyce has going for him is his left-handedness - and he's faced Warne in the CC this year and done OK, IIRC. Collingwood would certainly be a good choice, but I think the England selectors may have learnt after picking Pietersen that the odd gamble pays off occasionally. The Aussies don't know Joyce, either - they know Collingwood.

I guess Collingwood could get in on fielding alone - Vaughany just has to think "where do I want KP?", and then put Collingwood there instead.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

One thing Joyce has going for him is his left-handedness - and he's faced Warne in the CC this year and done OK, IIRC. Collingwood would certainly be a good choice, but I think the England selectors may have learnt after picking Pietersen that the odd gamble pays off occasionally. The Aussies don't know Joyce, either - they know Collingwood.

I guess Collingwood could get in on fielding alone - Vaughany just has to think "where do I want KP?", and then put Collingwood there instead.

Scores against Hampshire: 70 & 20 in the CC, 30 in the NL, 25 in Twenty20, 54 and 35 (run-out) in the CC. Fairly decent, in other words. And the CC 20 was on a pitch where Scott Styris got six for 73.

 

[SpeedKing]

We where poor Batting, we bowled well but Pietersen dropped catch may have cost us, Aussies have the best 2 bowlers in the last 15 years in McGrath and Warne they have taken 900 test wickets between them... there no need to panic

But i will make 2 changes to the 12 man squad Drop Giles for Joyce and G Jnoes for Read

oi Oi, that combined figure is 1097 not 900 so don't get it twisted

****consoles himself for getting bowled out by the two bowlers****

 

[PY]

On the basis that he doesn't turn it?

Bingo.

 

[SpeedKing]

And i am one in favour of the Matt Prior way. from that Sussex highlights tv website, i have had my eye on him and he has been quite impressive with both bat and gloves. i have no conclusive evidence on this but he is probably not as fine behind the stumps as Read co read is quite special [thinking about it, he should try football, he could sort out some goalkeeping problems for the footie team]. And is batting, might be lesser attacks he faces than Jones but he seems to perfdom better, so IMO, he does state a good case.

 

[Barney Rubble]

And i am one in favour of the Matt Prior way. from that Sussex highlights tv website, i have had my eye on him and he has been quite impressive with both bat and gloves. i have no conclusive evidence on this but he is probably not as fine behind the stumps as Read co read is quite special [thinking about it, he should try football, he could sort out some goalkeeping problems for the footie team]. And is batting, might be lesser attacks he faces than Jones but he seems to perfdom better, so IMO, he does state a good case.

He is someone who, if picked at no7 in Test cricket could at least give a reasonable account of himself and potentially more, and if picked at no8 with an extra batsman above him, would be one of the best Test no8s in the world. He has an FC average of around 38 (which, incidentally, is higher than Geraint Jones'), and certainly didn't seem to make any mistakes behind the stumps in the game where I saw him. Mind you, he didn't have much to do while Ian Blackwell was smashing it for six every time.

And Samuel, it would be interesting to know how many times Warne actually got Joyce out in those games - do you have the stats for that, too?

EDIT: No need, I just did - Warne only got him out twice, and that was in both innings in the first CC game, he hasn't got him since then. I'm beginning to warm to the idea of Joyce-for-Giles at Edgbaston more and more.

 

[Barney Rubble]

At the risk of becoming a one-man thread here, I just had a thought. It may be an incredibly crazy one, but it's a thought.

Having seen that he averages 86.08 from 11 FC matches this year, and hasn't played a Test match for his home country for three years, while living in England and playing for Essex - is Andy Flower eligible for England? If not, will he ever be? If he is, then although he is 37, I'm sure there are some would make a case for at least asking him if he fancies a crack at the Australians. Players with a Test average of 51.54 from 63 Tests don't drop on your doorstep every day. I'm not saying I'd pick him, but it's an interesting situation if he will one day be available. Likewise Stuart Law - he's an Aussie, we should pick him!

 

[age_master]

Law is eligeble, Flower is not AFAIK

 

[aussie]

One thing Joyce has going for him is his left-handedness - and he's faced Warne in the CC this year and done OK, IIRC. Collingwood would certainly be a good choice, but I think the England selectors may have learnt after picking Pietersen that the odd gamble pays off occasionally. The Aussies don't know Joyce, either - they know Collingwood.

I guess Collingwood could get in on fielding alone - Vaughany just has to think "where do I want KP?", and then put Collingwood there instead.

maybe they dont know Joyce but i dont think it will be wise for the selectors & pick him and if he fails another scenario will start up, Collingwood should be next in line....

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

maybe they dont know Joyce but i dont think it will be wise for the selectors & pick him and if he fails another scenario will start up, Collingwood should be next in line....

Collingwood shouldn't play test cricket. He's just not a good enough batsman. England have a lot of better options, and I'd rather see Joyce, Key, Butcher or any number of other people before Collingwood.

 

[jordyh]

I really doubt that any changes will be made

 

[aussie]

Collingwood shouldn't play test cricket. He's just not a good enough batsman. England have a lot of better options, and I'd rather see Joyce, Key, Butcher or any number of other people before Collingwood.

well i would have gone for Butcher if he was available plus i think Key would Fail to be honest, Joyce seems good but he will be inexperienced & Australia could prey on that key fact.I dont think Colly is that bad a bat & i think he has been unfairly written off has a poor test bat since he never reall y got much of a chance to prove himself.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Collingwood shouldn't play test cricket. He's just not a good enough batsman. England have a lot of better options, and I'd rather see Joyce, Key, Butcher or any number of other people before Collingwood.

Based on what evidence? We know from previous performances that Key and Butcher are a waste of space, coupled with their obviously 'brilliant' fielding. Joyce and Collingwood are pretty much unknowns when it comes to Test cricket.

 

[social]

I really liked the guy a few years ago when he used to write clever little DD-like spoof articles (not as good as mine, of course, but well worth a read ), but at the moment he seems to think that he has to be 'clever' with many his articles (hence the Emily Dickinson reference, the 'Dear Australia' etc).

Still a quite, quite brilliant writer and one of my favourite sports writers, but I really wish he would stick to the point sometimes.

As far as today's two articles go, I think he's actually got it totally and utterly spot-on. The inference is that it is a confidence thing, an inferiority complex thing, an unable to grasp the nettle thing, a capable of thrashing everyone else but not the one that really matters thing, and a few other things as well.

The only one he missed was the fact that it was an unable to apply the pressure a second time once Australia had forced themselves back into the game in the third session on Thursday thing.

I'll agree with you if you delete the word 'pathetic' and substitute in its place 'excellent'.

Barnes wrote an excellent article on the quality of McGrath's bowling on the first day.

Unfortunately, this follow-up piece largely ignores the points that he made in that article and attributes England's demise to a subservient, etc attitude.

If this piece had been written about a team that had previous Ashes experience and/or it was further into the series, I would not be so harsh.

However, to me, this article represents the worst of British journalism, i.e. stick the boot in whilst they're down.

BTW, is this the same Simon Barnes that used to play rugby for a team starting with "B?"

Didnt you say that you were in a town starting with "B?"

Dont you both have friends who wear horned helmets?

HMMM, the plot thickens.

 

[aussie]

G.Jones can't keep, C.Read can't bat, time for M.Prior.

So you reckon Prior could do both aspects better than Jones & Read, i think not........

 

[twctopcat]

So you reckon Prior could do both aspects better than Jones & Read, i think not........

Given Read has been given a chance, and Prior can keep and bat better than Jones, i think he would be worth a shot at some point.

 

[luckyeddie]

I am as yet unconvinced of this. I am rather of the opinion that the assembled gentlemen of the press are busily talking about their own feelings and emotions and projecting them on to the England team.

<snipped>

Cheers,

Mike

Is that also not inevitible, Mike? Their first thoughts being that it's a "here we go again" thing?

I agree we ought to wait and see, but of course that's not going to please the editor and it's certainly not going to fill twenty column-inches.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Barnes wrote an excellent article on the quality of McGrath's bowling on the first day.

Unfortunately, this follow-up piece largely ignores the points that he made in that article and attributes England's demise to a subservient, etc attitude.

If this piece had been written about a team that had previous Ashes experience and/or it was further into the series, I would not be so harsh.

However, to me, this article represents the worst of British journalism, i.e. stick the boot in whilst they're down.

BTW, is this the same Simon Barnes that used to play rugby for a team starting with "B?"

Didnt you say that you were in a town starting with "B?"

Dont you both have friends who wear horned helmets?

HMMM, the plot thickens.

Are you thinking of Stuart Barnes? Tubby ex-Bristol, Bath & England fly-half?

 

[luckyeddie]

Barnes wrote an excellent article on the quality of McGrath's bowling on the first day.

Unfortunately, this follow-up piece largely ignores the points that he made in that article and attributes England's demise to a subservient, etc attitude.

If this piece had been written about a team that had previous Ashes experience and/or it was further into the series, I would not be so harsh.

However, to me, this article represents the worst of British journalism, i.e. stick the boot in whilst they're down.

BTW, is this the same Simon Barnes that used to play rugby for a team starting with "B?"

Didnt you say that you were in a town starting with "B?"

Dont you both have friends who wear horned helmets?

HMMM, the plot thickens.

You'll need to run that lot by me again. If it's puffs rugby (that 15-a-side abomination), I have no interest in it at all. I first noticed Simon Barnes's writing a few years ago because it was very amusing (then).

Dublin does in fact start with a 'B' - 'Baile Atha Cliath'. Very well done.

Lucky Eddie is in fact a big pal of Hagar, so I get that reference too.

As you say HMMM, but I haven't a clue what plot you're on about (really) - I guess it's me who 'thickens'.