***Official*** Australia in England (The Ashes)

[aussie]

He has dropped two this game and 9 in 16 Tests, even Patel isn't that bad.

that was long ago, but throughout this english season he has improved form his shocking performaces in SA behind the stumps, even his batting to an extent seems to have got and added maturity about it.

 

[kendall]

Yes Jones very worrying today both drops were very poor just lazy the first one and the second one was really poor.
Warne simply amazing today and Pieterson the only England batsman that is playing well although Tresctohick looked much better today i just dont see why Thorpe has retired England now need him more than ever with. I am also very impressed with Katich who i have seen play well at hampshire and is proving a very effective Test player.

 

[vic_orthdox]

edit: also, Australian players rarely talk about the series results, beyond saying they are confident. They don't come out with things like "england are too young, they've got no experience and they're not going to be able to handle the pressure and will lose". They just say it's going to be a good series and most of what I've heard from the players coming into this series has been about how Flintoff is a great player and Harmison is dangerous etc. It's the ex-players that come out with the smack talk.

Got to agree with most of the replies to this post - it's a little off the mark. Especially when you look at Warne and McGrath - Warne in his talk about Strauss and Thorpe, and McGrath in general before the series.

 

[chaminda_00]

He's improved though. He was genuinely shocking in SA, and this is his first bad day since... he was generally quite good in the NWS.

Well IMO keeping in ODIs is different to keeping in Tests, you don't have to consentrate as long, so you generally make less errors. But in Tests if a keeper has a small error in his game, it will be found out time and time again.

 

[aussie]

i just dont see why Thorpe has retired England now need him more than ever with.

well mate after the left him out of this test they just about convinced the bloke to retire form test cricket, because surely Thorpe would have had his mind set on playing in this series then retiring.

 

[tooextracool]

He said he didn't think anyone could beat Australia if they played at their best. Not really an attack on the English team or a claim for a whitewash if you ask me.

nothing like shane warne claiming he knows he will get thorpe out cheaply and that england should select someone who hasnt been dominated by australia in the past you mean?

 

[King_Ponting]

nothing like shane warne claiming he knows he will get thorpe out cheaply and that england should select someone who hasnt been dominated by australia in the past you mean?

But thats the thing 12 years and warne is still dominating. Warne has the arrogance to say it and has backed it up with performance. Thats much the same as mcgrath targetting players before a series

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Got to agree with most of the replies to this post - it's a little off the mark. Especially when you look at Warne and McGrath - Warne in his talk about Strauss and Thorpe, and McGrath in general before the series.

Personally, I think there's a difference between talking about a personal battle with a player and that you think you will win it than saying somone is over the hill. Having said that, I guess I wasn't paying enough attention to what was said before the series. I recognise that Australians talk down the opposition more than any other team, particularly Warne, but prior to this particular series I saw a lot more from England, and little to no actual criticism of England from Australian players - all that stuff came from ex-players, that I saw. Evidently I missed a few things.

Everything I saw McGrath saying, for example, was about how good Harmison and Flintoff were, how England had an advantage because their players hadn't been exposed to Australia before (a baited compliment, obviously), and that sort of thing.

 

[tooextracool]

How's bowling on featherbeds in the WI against Lara, Sarwan, Chanderpaul and co for proof? I think we already have a world class bowler in our ranks, thanks.

err did you watch that series at all?
the only featherbed during that series was antigua.
personally, if pakistan prepare traditional sub continental wickets, i doubt harmo would be a real threat. and im fairly certain that hoggard will be carted all over the park.

 

[tooextracool]

agreed with everything but not the last one totally, thats the way Gilly plays it can lead to his downfall & also big runs.

on the odd occasion yes, but i think its glaringly obvious that gilchrist has only been half as effective on this tour of england compared to what he has been for the rest of his career.

 

[tooextracool]

Well if ever there was an english team to do it, this would be the one

nope the team that would have been capable of doing that was the one that had graham thorpe in it.

 

[biased indian]

on the odd occasion yes, but i think its glaringly obvious that gilchrist has only been half as effective on this tour of england compared to what he has been for the rest of his career.

but still there is 4 more test to go

 

[tooextracool]

Unfortunately, TEC, the problem continues to lies in your gross exaggeration.

Jones did not bowl either "exceedingly" or "extremely" well in the first innings.

He bowled a few good deliveries, many passable deliveries, and a number of downright poor deliveries which, surprise surprise, got hit for runs.

ok then, he didnt bowl 'exceedingly' well, but he still bowled well, which is still something you refuse to give him credit for.

Gillespie did not bowl "tripe". He was OK but still short of his best and should have been replaced a couple of overs before he was..

doubt it, gillespie bowled poorly, which is why he couldnt get a wicket on and barely got to bowl. he kept bowling too short and too wide of off stump instead of making the batsmen play.

Hayden and Gilchrist "exposed," give me a break.

Hayden played a lazy, flat-footed waft at a swinging delivery. He paid Hoggard and the conditions no respect and paid for it...

what a surprise then, hayden got out to an inswinger. it wasnt a lazy waft, he was in absolutely no position to play it in the first place.

Gilchrist played the way he always does and edged it. The guy has probably faced more around the wicket bowling than almost any left hander in history and still averages 55 in tests. Obviously you didnt watch the final ODI last week because if you had you will see that he has good days and not so good days against this form of attack.

yea so he had 1 good day in how many games then? bar that 100, he hasnt gone past 50 against england on this entire tour, and the number of times hes been dismissed by the same ball is simply insane. no of course, just like he scores the odd 100 against quality spin he will play the odd good innings, all good players do that occasionally, but it doesnt change the fact that hes had his weakness perfectly exposed so far this series. just because he has a weakness it doesnt mean that he will fail in every inning that he plays in, but even you cant deny that gilchrist hasnt been the same player on this tour as he has for the rest of his career.

And BTW, Australia are now on top in this game because their batting in the second innings was test rather than ODI oriented, and have been aided hugely by poor English bowling (except Harmison), fielding and captaincy.

and would you have been saying this had clarke been caught smashing a long hop to pietersen on 21?
lets see analyse the other wickets that fell then.
langer threw his wicket away with a needless run out
hayden went for the pull and got himself out.
ponting played a very poor stroke to a ball wide of off stump

if anything, the reasons australia played better in the 2nd inning are because the pitch got better and as you said the england bowlers and fielders played worse.

 

[tooextracool]

Indeed ....This test also clears up the "Lee's not a good test bowler rubbish also eh TEC

the argument always was that Lee wasnt a very good test bowler, and i think even Lee would have told you that after he was dropped the last time. theres no doubt that his being dropped has made him a better bowler, hes since changed his action a bit and is a lot more accurate.

 

[tooextracool]

Checking the bowling figures and scorecard this morning I was surprised not to see Simon Jones not have a wicket next to his name - considering how well he was bowling to Martyn and Ponting (how he missed the outside edge or not bowled Martyn I have no idea). It was probably one of those days if he pitched the ball up by an inch or two he would have got a wicket.

he started off very well, and then kept sending the ball down leg side, which is probably a by product of being frustrated by not getting wickets off good balls. and its happened so many times recently that you have to wonder whether he truly is one of those unlucky bowlers.

 

[tooextracool]

Bring back Thorpe, how good would it be if you were English and Thorpe was coming in. You might still have a chance.

convince him to come back from retirement i'd say!
couldnt hurt to try.
you really gotta wonder though, what changes england will make to this side after this games done.

 

[tooextracool]

My god. You don't think, perhaps, he was beaten by variation? Warne bowled five leg-breaks that over, including two wide, big spinning ones which Bell would have been worried about the turn on, then the last ball was a well disguised slider, pitched in the same place as the other leg-breaks, and went straight on. Bell, probably having minimal experience playing quality leg-spin, let it go not wanting to play at a ball that might turn sharply and catch the edge. That's why Warne's a good bowler. Watch the next time they face each other for Warne to do the same thing, Bell to plonk his bat down at it expecting the slider, and it will turn and Hayden will catch the edge at slip.

Poor batting had nothing to do with it.

are you serious?
when it comes to spin bowlers, you have to be able to pick them. ATM about half the english players have no clue about it.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

convince him to come back from retirement i'd say!
couldnt hurt to try.
you really gotta wonder though, what changes england will make to this side after this games done.

I'd say both teams will be unchanged. I wouldn't be surprised if both teams when the whole series without making a change actually, although if Gillespie doesn't take a couple of wickets eventually he will be dropped for Kasprowicz. What are England going to do? Trescothick and Strauss won't get dropped, Vaughan is captain, Bell had a good enough start to buy him an extended run, Pietersen they just dropped their best player for, Flintoff is the hope of the team, and there's nobody to replace the bowlers.

I'd concievable that if Jones has a really shocking run he would get dropped for Tremlett, but that's all.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

are you serious?
when it comes to spin bowlers, you have to be able to pick them. ATM about half the english players have no clue about it.

Of course you have to be able to pick them, but how many times would Bell have faced a spinner of Warne's quality? You can't expect a kid to come in an instantly start reading the subtle variations of a guy with almost 600 test wickets. And that wasn't exactly an ordinary over either. Someone with more experience might have bitten the bullet and tried to block that, obviously, but Bell was simply beaten by the mind games that good spin bowlers can play. Every other ball in that over which Bell didn't get to the pitch of turned sharply. Obviously, not knowing how to read Warne's slider, he played for the turn. It's just not something he deserves criticism for unless it happens again next time.

As I said though, Warne will remember that, and you can bet some time later in the series he will try the same trick but make it a leg break and Bell will try and defend it and edge it to slip.

 

[tooextracool]

Hindsight is 20/20, I know, but...

If Jones continues to keep as such, and doesn't set the world alight with the bat - would the Englishmen here prefer to see Read in the side, especially if they end up playing 6 batsman + Flintoff?

nope, read cant bat to save his life.
i'd rather have jones, or if desperate go for prior who seems like he can play spin.