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***Official*** Australia and South Africa in West Indies ODI Tri-Series

harsh.ag

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
stphndbsn said:
Thing is we know what Morris can do, he is a solid big hitting allrounder... if AB had been sent in and got out, and then they sent in Morris I could accept that. There is not a single good reason to not send AB in.... the only reason why AB is held back is the 'threat' of what he could potentially do; having him come in at 5 is a giant blue safety blanket the SA team keep holding onto....
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They do need that blanket though and no one other than AB has shown they can play that role consistently. And it's a huge role in ODIs nowadays. You just have to go big in the last 10 overs. If Morris can become a decent number 3 or 4, I am all for it.
 
StephenZA

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
harsh.ag said:
They do need that blanket though and no one other than AB has shown they can play that role consistently. And it's a huge role in ODIs nowadays. You just have to go big in the last 10 overs. If Morris can become a decent number 3 or 4, I am all for it.
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Sorry we don`t need the blanket... Morris will never become a 3/4 he is a big hitting bowler, he does not have technique for anything more, he came in because of the match situation not because he is expected to become a 3/4. (If we where going that root (dear god) then Parnell would be a better option). If we need a big hitting batsmen for the last 10 overs then leave Morris at 7.

We are short in the lower order of quality batting at the moment, trying to falsely extend your batting by pushing up those lower order batsmen only stops your best from playing more overs... if we need additional batsmen then play Elgar at 3 and drop behardien/duminy/parnell and live with a weaker bowling line-up. The safety blanket attitude is a bad mindset... trust our best to get the job done at the top and bat out the overs... if they fail every now and again, hope the rest can pick up the slack... stop planning for worst case scenario and play for best case scenario.
 
anil1405

anil1405

International Captain
To add to what Stephen has said, I would like to see players like Rossouw, Duminy and to an extent Faf, play a lot of the middle overs as they don't tend to adapt to different match situations as they need to. Only time in the middle can help them do that plus good planning from the coaching staff in terms of what their roles are and what they need to do must be clear.
 
harsh.ag

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
stphndbsn said:
Sorry we don`t need the blanket... Morris will never become a 3/4 he is a big hitting bowler, he does not have technique for anything more, he came in because of the match situation not because he is expected to become a 3/4. (If we where going that root (dear god) then Parnell would be a better option). If we need a big hitting batsmen for the last 10 overs then leave Morris at 7.

We are short in the lower order of quality batting at the moment, trying to falsely extend your batting by pushing up those lower order batsmen only stops your best from playing more overs... if we need additional batsmen then play Elgar at 3 and drop behardien/duminy/parnell and live with a weaker bowling line-up. The safety blanket attitude is a bad mindset... trust our best to get the job done at the top and bat out the overs... if they fail every now and again, hope the rest can pick up the slack... stop planning for worst case scenario and play for best case scenario.
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Am all for Elgar coming in at 3. My point is that AB at 5 gives more value to SA at this point than he does at 3. Sure, Morris is not ideally the one you should be looking towards to become a number 3 or 4, but that's just a detail. It used to happen all the time with India that our ODI batting sucked below the top 3, and we consistently lost many matches we should have won.
 
StephenZA

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
harsh.ag said:
Am all for Elgar coming in at 3. My point is that AB at 5 gives more value to SA at this point than he does at 3. Sure, Morris is not ideally the one you should be looking towards to become a number 3 or 4, but that's just a detail. It used to happen all the time with India that our ODI batting sucked below the top 3, and we consistently lost many matches we should have won.
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I`ve been for Elgar to come in at 3 (replacing Duminy) for a long while... but AB needs to face 25+ overs; In the current batting line-up I`m happy for AB to play 4 (prefer 3), if we lose any early wicket Faf coming in is fine, but AB must be next one in thereafter, regardless of match situation as he can play all the roles. But if we have a solid foundation with 25+ overs left (like in the last game) AB must come in next, we must stop hiding him...

PS: The solution for India was to find an MS Dhoni not to move Tendulkar lower down the order....
 
harsh.ag

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
stphndbsn said:
I`ve been for Elgar to come in at 3 (replacing Duminy) for a long while... but AB needs to face 25+ overs; In the current batting line-up I`m happy for AB to play 4 (prefer 3), if we lose any early wicket Faf coming in is fine, but AB must be next one in thereafter, regardless of match situation as he can play all the roles. But if we have a solid foundation with 25+ overs left (like in the last game) AB must come in next, we must stop hiding him...

PS: The solution for India was to find an MS Dhoni not to move Tendulkar lower down the order....
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It's not hiding so much as tactical. The middle overs don't need big hitting. Somebody like Elgar can step in and do a slightly worse job than AB himself would have done in those overs, and you can have AB come in later and do the finishing role.

India didn't find a solution so much as we got one. Dhoni's emergence wasn't planned or anything. It was pure luck. This is about strategy.
 
StephenZA

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
harsh.ag said:
It's not hiding so much as tactical. The middle overs don't need big hitting. Somebody like Elgar can step in and do a slightly worse job than AB himself would have done in those overs, and you can have AB come in later and do the finishing role.

India didn't find a solution so much as we got one. Dhoni's emergence wasn't planned or anything. It was pure luck. This is about strategy.
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SA are unlikely to play Elgar, I wish they would....
AB at 4 right now is alright. But they still need to send him in when we are in a good position. The tactical thinking is we delay until the last overs and then release AB. For me if we have a good start and AB then comes in he can do maximum damage. If we have a poor start then AB is the most likely batsmen in the team to stabilize and even counterattack. What tends to happen is the team tries to use him as an ace in the hole that does damage near the end...and quite often what happens is he gets played to late. Simply put, if AB bats 25+ overs SA is almost guaranteed to win... if he bats 10 at the end we may win.

Edit: I do think that this is one of those debates that can go forever in circles... heck it feels like its being going forever here in SA.
 
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Daemon

Daemon

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Boland looks like such an average bowler. What's he done to get the nod over NCN or Zampa?
 
Stapel

Stapel

International Regular
Daemon said:
22 runs from the last 41 from Samuels, playing for the ton for sure. WAC.
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Might have something to do with the return of Starc & Hazlewood. He's really been doing the same all along: put away the bad balls, be careful with the good deliveries. WAG!
 
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