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**Official** Asia Cup 2004 Thread

TendulkarFan

School Boy/Girl Captain
Great game by Pakistan!

Congratulations to Pakistan on a thorough victory today! As I watched them play today, I couldn't help but think the professionalism and team play instilled by Woolmer is already showing. Whether it was a one-off accident or whether it will become a consistent occurrance with this Pakistani team, only time will tell.

But man were they good today or what!

Indians will need to play their absolute best to beat the Lankans on Tuesday.
 

warpigs

Cricket Spectator
thought

so which point of the match you guys think was the turning point of the match or would you rather go with "it was one sided from the start" ?
 

RealPk

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
it will be close.....

Oh, damn it!
I watched this match and i was in the beginning so shocked, when nazir got out..
But then after looking to the shots of Shoaib Malik, i was realising that pakistan will now find back into the match and they did.
In the end the indians were very lucky with the bonus point and i was so unhappy at first....
But beating India means everytime something and so my bad mood was gone..
And im still thinking that Pakistan will stay in the final, because the Sri Lankan will fight for their places in the team, whoever will play for Sri Lanka.
And its also not really good if some bowler like Zoysa rest, because some bowlers and batsman like him have to keep his forms...
It will be another encouter on Tuesday and im not sure, whether the Sri Lankans will be happy to play a third time in a so short time against India.
Because if they play against Pakistan in the final, they will only have one mind in the brain...The 123 runs win over Pakistan, and maybe this could be a fact for the Sri Lankans to give everything , that the Indians will not gonna win...


An another advantage is that they havent any more pressure and could play cool and calm their game down.....
 

maxpower

U19 Cricketer
was the 240 target for india to get bonus point or Pak to not get bonus point ? As for the match, pretty lousy effort by IND as has been the case throughout the tournament.
 

Sehwag309

Banned
RealPaki said:
Oh, damn it!
I watched this match and i was in the beginning so shocked, when nazir got out..
But then after looking to the shots of Shoaib Malik, i was realising that pakistan will now find back into the match and they did.
In the end the indians were very lucky with the bonus point and i was so unhappy at first....
But beating India means everytime something and so my bad mood was gone..
And im still thinking that Pakistan will stay in the final, because the Sri Lankan will fight for their places in the team, whoever will play for Sri Lanka.
And its also not really good if some bowler like Zoysa rest, because some bowlers and batsman like him have to keep his forms...
It will be another encouter on Tuesday and im not sure, whether the Sri Lankans will be happy to play a third time in a so short time against India.
Because if they play against Pakistan in the final, they will only have one mind in the brain...The 123 runs win over Pakistan, and maybe this could be a fact for the Sri Lankans to give everything , that the Indians will not gonna win...


An another advantage is that they havent any more pressure and could play cool and calm their game down.....
or it could be that Lankans would prefer Indians in the final by seeing Paks performance today, it was a great knck my malik and by no means Indians deserved to win today. But even pak performed pathetically against Lankans and came back strong today so it can happen with India too.

If they dont beat lanka on tueday, then they never deserved to win asia cup r be in the finals for that matter
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Slow Love™ said:
They're aiming for the bonus point. At some stage (probably when Parthan came to the wicket), Ganguly must have decided it was better to consolidate and get the crucial point, rather than potentially suicide, swinging the bat with the tail exposed so early.
that was brilliant strategy..... they almost lost it in the end though and probably shouldnt have got it if moin khan could hit the stumps
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Swervy said:
I cant see what is wrong with just having the net run rate as an added incentive to get close to the opponents score if you are losing a game
because quite frankly the net RR is the stupidest way to decide which teams go through to the finals. its all so very likely that one team might have played on a seamer friendly wicket and scored at less than 4 runs an over while the other might have played on completely flat wickets and end up with a higher run rate.
i for one understand the bonus point system because it makes sure that teams that win convincingly get something extra, because any of the top 8 sides can lose to each other on an off day.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
although it seems unlikely i find harbhajan to be even more of an imbecile every time i see him bat. whatever possessed him to play a shot like that i'll never know, IMO kumble should bat ahead of both harbhajan and balaji, the latter of which is more hit and miss than anything else and definetly not even worthy of being called a potential all rounder as someone on these boards keeps suggesting.
 

ReallyCrazy

Banned
Sehwag has been a big flop in this series. And it has also been a long time since Ganguly has played a match winning innings. I think it's time to change this batting line up. Sachin Tendulkar should START playing like the way he used to. I'm not sayin he should become a dasher once again (sehwag is there) but he has stopped taking any kind of risk and that is not a good thing. Also I think Ganguly should get back to opening the batting.

We can have either Ganguly-Sehwag or Ganguly-Tendulkar. But Sehwag-Tendulkar should not open.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Every match the Indians have played has opened a can of worms. They may have been a batsman short in two matches, but 7 batsmen don't win matches- runs, the mandatory 10 wickets and top quality fielding do.

Ganguly is an instinctive captain, but his instincts have often led to many a defeat. His methods are useless in a team short of great players, especially bowlers, and he needs to talk to all his bowlers and some former captains who have led their teams to victories as fielding sides, to learn something. In fact, a talk with Anil Kumble and Rahul Dravid will help a lot.

Pace bowling is not a strength- it is a weakness in this Indian team. The way Balaji bowled in the tournament, there is absolutely no point in going in with three seamers, who lack pace, and cannot do much on these flat wickets. Balaji should be kept out of action in the Asia Cup and get his line and length right for the Holland tri-series, the Natwest Challenge and the Champions Trophy. He has to improve his batting a lot- there's no way he will last in the team as a specialist bowler. The only pace bowlers who have ever got the job done are Irfan Pathan, who should be the team's main strike bowler, and Nehra, who has performed reasonably well, without support from the field. Irfan can continue as he is, but Nehra should concentrate on line and length.

The spinners have bowled a lot better than the seamers- they showed more discipline, intelligence, maturity and patience, only to be weakened by bad field settings, pathetic fielding support and a batting side in form. Kumble is NOT a mediocre medium-pacer, but a key bowler in this team, with good figures of 2/49. He has over 300 wickets, and is still the most potent bowler in this team, but the kind of fields he gets defy logic. He's being used as a restrictive bowler, which reduces the team's chances of taking wickets. There have to be more fielders in catching positions when there is a new batsman in the middle.

Tendulkar's success with the ball may be helpful for the team, but it is also rather disturbing. Is this what the frontline bowlers have done? Tendulkar may be an intelligent bowler, but not good enough to bowl more than 3 overs. Those overs he bowls may either be top stuff, or just plain rubbish. One of the batsmen has to bowl as many as 7 overs in every match, so that he is in action a lot longer, so chances of inconsistency are reduced. The 'lottery' overs plan must be scrapped, if they have to win a tournament.

Fielding is an issue, with the best fielders struggling. None of the direct hits are hitting the stumps. Nobody is backing up. Throws from the deep are weak. Misfields are as common as crows at the stadium. Only one fielder has really tried to stand up for the team, and that is Kaif, whose batting is not good enough to keep him in the team. Ganguly must do something, but bu there's not much a player who can't bend to pick up a ball without giving an easy singe can do to improve the fielding of top notch fielders, even as captain. John Wright may have problems, but mild speeches are not working. He needs to put the team through the wringer, something which Dean Jones would have done, as coach.

Sehwag's fielding was woeful, and so is his batting in the Asia Cup. He's not playing his natural game- he needs to go for the boundaries right away. If not in fours, he has to pinch quick singles within the 30-yard line, and the same applies to all the batsmen, from first strike opener to number 11. He should not try to spend too much time in the middle to build an innings- it will work against the interests of the team. They need Sehwag in big-hitting form. Shoaib Malik's promotion to #3 may have worked for the Pakistanis, with that blistering innings which is missing from an Indian blade, but Ganguly's form against pacers is still suspect, so he must go down to #6 and do what he can do best- hit the spinners for big runs. Dravid is perhaps the only player in good form, but you can't win matches with one batsman all the time.

Yuvraj is getting out once too often at the wrong time, playing a needless shot, which makes his selection as an opener in Tests strange. He is a better batsman against the seamers, whom he can hit for a lot of runs, but he has his problems against the spinners. Kaif may have gota few runs at 7, but not enough when needed, so he too needs to step up.

Pathan is batting like a true top-6 batsman and deserves the #7 position, or even that of the opener, so that he can hit fours and sixes freely. The Indians need a big-hitter like Gilchrist, Gayle, Flintoff or Cairns, and he is the right man. Harbhajan has alot of talent as a batsman, but he is not doing any justice to it by playing reckless shots. His approach is good, but not right for that stage.

Where do they go from here? If the current plans are continued, they may as well go back home early- they're not even looking to win the tournament, but looking to survive, which is not the way to play. The plan of playing for a point was apalling- they would get it anyway. Instead, they should have looked to score at least 270-280 and still play for a win. Rather than worry too much for 5 points, they should look to smash the Lankans out of contention and get back into the winning habit, so that they are ready to win the Asia Cup.

They should play 2 seamers and 2 spinners, with Ganguly playing as a third seamer in the first 15 overs. Pathan should get his full 10 overs, with attacking fields at the start of the innings. Nehra should just bowl straight. Kumble and Harbhajan must bowl together. Sehwag must get 7 overs, while Tendulkar gets at least 3. When a new batsman comes in, there should be more fielders in catching positions. It does ot matter who bowls; the fielding should be very sharp.

Runs have to be scored between the wickets more often- at least 50% of the runs should be within the 30-yard circle. More 3's should be scored. This will not only getruns, but also put pressure on the fielders, resulting in mistakes. Against Murali, they must step out and put bat to ball, since it has worked for the Australians. Against the seamers, they must look for 110 runs in the first 15 overs, so that they can play more carefully in the middle overs without losing track of the run rate. They have to look to win, by a big margin.
 

ReallyCrazy

Banned
Arjun said:
Pace bowling is not a strength- it is a weakness in this Indian team. The way Balaji bowled in the tournament, there is absolutely no point in going in with three seamers, who lack pace, and cannot do much on these flat wickets. Balaji should be kept out of action in the Asia Cup and get his line and length right for the Holland tri-series, the Natwest Challenge and the Champions Trophy. He has to improve his batting a lot- there's no way he will last in the team as a specialist bowler.

I totally agree with you on Balaji. His bowling has been woeful. But if he is going to be batting at #8 or 9, I'd have him improve his BOWLING a whole lot more than his batting.

The spinners have bowled a lot better than the seamers- they showed more discipline, intelligence, maturity and patience, only to be weakened by bad field settings, pathetic fielding support and a batting side in form. Kumble is NOT a mediocre medium-pacer, but a key bowler in this team, with good figures of 2/49. He has over 300 wickets, and is still the most potent bowler in this team, but the kind of fields he gets defy logic. He's being used as a restrictive bowler, which reduces the team's chances of taking wickets. There have to be more fielders in catching positions when there is a new batsman in the middle.

I think playing at international level, the players should know by now that fielding is important. If they fielded very badly, its only because they don't know how to field. However, I do think Kumble is a medium pacer. He is no spinner. He doesn't spin the ball :wacko:

Only one fielder has really tried to stand up for the team, and that is Kaif, whose batting is not good enough to keep him in the team.

yep but fielding alone should not get a guy into the team. Personally, I feel Hemang Badani is a much better tatter than kaif and his fielding is not bad either. India have to seriously look into bringing badani for Kaif.

Sehwag's fielding was woeful, and so is his batting in the Asia Cup. He's not playing his natural game- he needs to go for the boundaries right away. If not in fours, he has to pinch quick singles within the 30-yard line, and the same applies to all the batsmen, from first strike opener to number 11. He should not try to spend too much time in the middle to build an innings- it will work against the interests of the team. They need Sehwag in big-hitting form. Shoaib Malik's promotion to #3 may have worked for the Pakistanis, with that blistering innings which is missing from an Indian blade, but Ganguly's form against pacers is still suspect, so he must go down to #6 and do what he can do best- hit the spinners for big runs. Dravid is perhaps the only player in good form, but you can't win matches with one batsman all the time.

OK what you said there, I dont agee with at all. Sehwag no doubt needs to hit big but if he continues this mentality of trying to blast every ball into the stand, then he will be nothing more than Shahid Afridi. Bowlers will sort him out and he will be known as a one trick pony. He's got to learn to play the ball on its merit...the way tendulkar used to bat 4 years ago. Ganguly's has been a great player of pace. He was a very successful opener along with Tendulkar. He has scored most of his runs as opener. So I don't know where you get the idea that he doesn't play pace well. I really feel he should open once again. Once the 15 overs are up, and the spinners come on...he will try and hit the spinners as well.

Pathan is batting like a true top-6 batsman and deserves the #7 position, or even that of the opener, so that he can hit fours and sixes freely. The Indians need a big-hitter like Gilchrist, Gayle, Flintoff or Cairns, and he is the right man. Harbhajan has alot of talent as a batsman, but he is not doing any justice to it by playing reckless shots. His approach is good, but not right for that stage.

Pathan as opener? come on! He should concentrate on his bowling and do his batting bit at #7 where he belongs. And Harbhajan...he's got no batting talent. Balaji is a better batter than harbhajan.
 

RealPk

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
mhmmmhm....

I dont think, that the Indian Fielding was so bad yesterday!
There were just little mistakes, which cause the Indians extra runs.
There were 3 or 5 i think.
Nervertheless, they fielded well..
You only have to look on Shoaib Malik, who stroke so well into the gaps...
He was searching room, to play the fours and he has done it very well, as you can see on his Score and strike rate.
And this was the thing, which the Indian havent shown. There were just shots, to get the run rate up, but not more.....
Although the Pakistani fielding was also professionell. And if u look how Inzamam got out, you will see that this scene confirm the Indian fielding.
I also want to say, that if Inzamam didnt got out, there could be a total of 320 to 330 possible, and the Indians wouldnt get the Bonus point.
But the performance of the Pakistanis was really world class....And if im looking objective on the final without my Pakistani glasses, i wish that Pakistan and Sri Lanka should have another match.
Because the Indians hadnt performed well in this Asia Cup and normally now the marit couldnt be for them to come in the final.
And im also sure, that some objective Indians would agree with me, since we are all wanting a perfect, world class and exciting cricket final in this Asia Cup!

Greetings from a in Germany borned pakistani Boy
(still hoping for a final between Pakistan and Sri Lanka)
 

Sehwag309

Banned
RealPaki said:
I dont think, that the Indian Fielding was so bad yesterday!
There were just little mistakes, which cause the Indians extra runs.
There were 3 or 5 i think.
Nervertheless, they fielded well..
You only have to look on Shoaib Malik, who stroke so well into the gaps...
He was searching room, to play the fours and he has done it very well, as you can see on his Score and strike rate.
And this was the thing, which the Indian havent shown. There were just shots, to get the run rate up, but not more.....
Although the Pakistani fielding was also professionell. And if u look how Inzamam got out, you will see that this scene confirm the Indian fielding.
I also want to say, that if Inzamam didnt got out, there could be a total of 320 to 330 possible, and the Indians wouldnt get the Bonus point.
But the performance of the Pakistanis was really world class....And if im looking objective on the final without my Pakistani glasses, i wish that Pakistan and Sri Lanka should have another match.
Because the Indians hadnt performed well in this Asia Cup and normally now the marit couldnt be for them to come in the final.
And im also sure, that some objective Indians would agree with me, since we are all wanting a perfect, world class and exciting cricket final in this Asia Cup!

Greetings from a in Germany borned pakistani Boy
(still hoping for a final between Pakistan and Sri Lanka)
and I am sorry, but I dont agree. Pakistan performed pathetically against Lanka and then it was easily said that they don't deserve to be in the final. They had a easy ride in their group match, India still had to play a better team.
India was nowhere near good and let Pak make 300, but managed that bonus point which pakistanis knew could cost them the final

Now, just the way Pak came back in the India match, India can too against Lanka..and deserve the place in the final.

..and it's not our problem what team lanka chooses, youth, middle age, old..we have to win

if we loose today.,..then I will buy a drink and say I agree with ya


-Indian Born in India
 

RealPk

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
not really.....

You said, that the Indians were bad and let Pakistan score 300 runs?
No, never....!
The Pakistanis have planned more or less a total like this, like Shoaib Malik said....
The Indians were just not good enough for Pakistan and they give them up...
This also shows that the Spirirt and the thinking to win a match under this condition is away..... A part of this u could see in the last match agains Sri Lanka, where they fight back, but i think, the teamwork of the Indian, which brought them into the World Cup final isnt any more alive.
Therefore, the Indians will lose tomorrow, because you couldnt win a match only with a Batsmen and a bowler in topform (Dravid and Pathan)
The fact, that the Pakistani bowlers took your so in good form batsmen Dravid out, shows, that the Pakistanis bowlers really wanted to come in the final and they also have done everything.
The Indians were just not strong enough for Pakistan..

In fact i think the teamspirit of India, which kept them in the World Cup and the Pak Series so alive is flown.....
 

arjwiz

School Boy/Girl Captain
RealPaki said:
In fact i think the teamspirit of India, which kept them in the World Cup and the Pak Series so alive is flown.....
I'm sure you will change your opinion after tomorrow's match. How can you say that India don't deserve to be in the finals? After all, it was Pakistan that conceded the bonus point to SL. After India defeats Sri Lanka tomorrow, and Pakistan don't make it to the final, your views will change.
 

biased indian

International Coach
RealPaki said:
You said, that the Indians were bad and let Pakistan score 300 runs?
No, never....!
The Pakistanis have planned more or less a total like this, like Shoaib Malik said....
so y didnt they plan like that aganist SL :D :D
 

ReallyCrazy

Banned
arjiz how can you be so sure India are going to win against Sri Lanka tomorrow? SL are the top team in this tournamemnt. I mean the way India are playing right now...they don't deserve to be in the finals. But I do hope they put in a good performance tomorrow.
 

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