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*Official* Ashes Series Thread

James

Cricket Web Owner
What first comes to mind is that the loss of Warne and McGrath for this test has cost Australia the match.

If England had Thorpe, Gough, Giles, and a few others who were injured how would the series have went? Could England have taken the series?

Is Australia's depth really proven? Are there players after McGrath and Warne?
 

aussie_beater

State Vice-Captain
Gregory Blewett said:
I think what Age meant was Australia would rather Lose a test trying to win, rather than draw one that the didn't attempt to get the total...

Remember Steve Waugh's Number 1 comment....

"NO REGRETS"
I don't think they even went for the winning runs of 452 here...... its just a case of them folding up tamely and not a case of them going down with all guns blazing.

The thing is that the Aussie team as a whole has had so few occasions lately of saving a match that they are not really good at it.They know how to win by dominating from day one....not how to save a match when the chips are down on day five.
 

Blewy

Cricketer Of The Year
I think there are, its just they haven't been used...

I mean we had the series won 3-0 and when Warne was injured it was the perfect opportunity to bring in a young spinner and test them out, but instead they elected to go with a Stuart MacGill who has performed Moderately at best this season in Pura Cup...

As for McGrath, i think Stuart Clark would have been in-line to replace him had he not been injured earlier in the season....

There are players there and im not saying they are the quality of Warne and McGrath but they need to be given the chance to show they can step up and when is a better time than in a series were u are up 3-0 and cannot lose, and against an opposition who are down.....
 

Blewy

Cricketer Of The Year
Well, its all over...


Now a few well done's...

Well done to Australia 1stly for winning the Ashes yet again...
Well done to England on the final test...
Well done to Michael Vaughan on a great Series...
Well done to Andy Caddick on his 10 wicket match...
And well done to Nasser Hussain, he has had a heap of pressure on him and he and his team have shown they can compete...

All they need to do now is to put the efforts of the last 7 days in the series, into a fulle 5 test series...

Well done to Marc on his big win...
:P :P :P :P :P

And thanx to all the English and Aussie fans who made this series extremely fun...
 

Ringua

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
James said:
What first comes to mind is that the loss of Warne and McGrath for this test has cost Australia the match.

If England had Thorpe, Gough, Giles, and a few others who were injured how would the series have went? Could England have taken the series?

Is Australia's depth really proven? Are there players after McGrath and Warne?
NO, England would have still lost the series, and i would dare say that they would have lost by a similar margin of 4-1 , had players like Gough,Jones & Toff played for them.The matches though would have been a bit more closer though.

I just read an article by Jonathan Agnew in which he mentioned as to how badly Australia missed McGrath and Warne in this match, and also about Aussies possible decline after the two bowlers do retire from the game!
 

Ringua

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
And my Congrats to the English fans, indeed England played superb cricket to win the final test match!
 

anzac

International Debutant
congradulations to:
England for their fine win in the 5th Test & they outplayed Australia throughout the match;
Vaughan for his MOTM & MOTS;
Hussain for his belief in his team, strength of character thru adversity thru most of the tour, and taking the fight to the Aussies;
Steve Waugh for his career milestones in the 1st innings of the match.
The Barmy Army who are probably the best travelling supporters around (the English football supporters could learn a thing or two from them)!!!!

IMO the loss of Warne & McGrath was a factor so far as their experience goes, as you can not loose the two best bowlers of their type and not be affected. But more importantly IMO it was the disruption to the team rythmn that was more telling, along with the injury to Gillespie in the 2nd innings. The lack of a regular 5th bowling option for the Aussies was again exposed, which allowed England to post a match winning target and their bowlers to attack on a 5th Day pitch! The Aussies now face the prospect of their front 3 bowlers out thru injury.




:)
 

The Argonaut

State Vice-Captain
Time for my usual critique of the test match. England were deserved winners of the game.

Australia

Langer - not his best match, got a lousy lbw in the 2nd innings, overall a good series but if you take out the 250 it's lean.

Hayden - also not his best and also got a lousy lbw in the 2nd innings. Will remember the game more for the money he lost. Still the best batsman in the game at the present moment.

Ponting - another below par performance, got a good one from Caddick in the 2nd innings, will have to wait a while longer to accept the captaincy I think.

Martyn - only Aussie batsman not to get a century (apart from Lehmann/Love), did not take his opportunities to nail down the number 4 position.

Waugh - will he or won't he? I'd like to see him continue. Getting the cetury off the last ball of the day will go down as one of Australia's more memorable sporting events. Has done enough recently to continue on if he chooses to do so.

Love - got to see what test cricket is all about this time, made a contribution in the 2nd but needed to make runs here to keep out Lehmann when he comes back. Still a must for the Windies.

Gilchrist - breathtaking batting in both innings. Keeping is still untidy as he dropped two catches that he should have got.

Bichel - tough fellow but one wonders if he is a test class bowler. A workman like performance. batted extremely well in the 2nd innings.

Lee - better in the 2nd innings but still getting wickets at the same average as when he was dropped. A worry for the selectors.

Gillespie - should not have played this match. Was underdone from the start. Fought well with the bat.

MacGill - no longer a test class spinner. 3 years ago he was as good as Warne but not any more. Too many bad balls. It's fine to spin the ball miles but never looked like getting too many wickets. Best to go for youth in the future.

England

Vaughan - classy again, England's best batsman in years. Enjoyable to watch and knows how to take a bad decision. A funny stat about his tour - four centuries, no fifties and no catches. I can recall him dropping at least 3 maybe 4 during the tour. His only weakness?

Trescothick - a bad test tour for him. Again lack of footwork brought him undone outside off stump.

Butcher - rode his luck to a good century. Makes up for a bad decision in the last match.

Hussain - really solid match for him. has deserved to have something go right for him on an overall disasterour tour. Batted well. Probably declared too late but didn't want to give the Aussies a sniff. Worked out regardless.

Key - dodgy pull shot and trapped by part time medium pacer again. Needs to work on his shot selection.

Crawley - ordinary to watch, should be his last test.

Stewart - fine 71 in the first dig, kept well. Maybe he should get the chicken pox more often.

Dawson - awful bowling in the last two tests. Game needs a lot of work. I think I could almost spin the ball more. It's no wonder that Hussain waited till the last minute to declare.

Caddick - bounced back well, too bad it took until the last innings to show his skill. Would the series have turned out differently if he had bowled as well on the first moring at the Gabba after his skipper won the toss and bowled.

Hoggard - deserved som ewickets after a distaterous start to the tour.

Harmison - looked good but it's still early days for this one. Will have learned heaps on this tour. One to watch.

Both umpires deserve zero out of ten for their efforts. If they are in the top eight then the rest must be crap. Fortunately it didn't affect the outcome greatly as England would have won anyway.

On to the one dayers and world cup.
 

anzac

International Debutant
James said:
Is Australia's depth really proven? Are there players after McGrath and Warne? [/B]
Any team that eventually looses the two best bowlers of their craft must suffer some drop in performance. However I do not think that will mean the decline of the Aussie team. Yes they will be more 'beatable' inintially, but I think that once the replacements find their feet the 'machine' will continue on it's way.

Just as it has taken this series for the English bowling attack to settle & gel, so it will be with the Aussies. The lack of experience in this situation was their undoing, not the lack of talent or committment etc.

Same thoughts apply so far as their batting line up goes, the juggling act is to avoid loosing potentially over half the team in the same season!!!! If they can avoid that they will be fine, if not they will struggle for a season or so until they gel again!!!

:)
 

anzac

International Debutant
England can take some positives out of this series, both into the VB Series & WC, and further into their Test Series V SA & beyond to the next Home Ashes in 2005. But they must remember that one victory does not mean that they have a lot of work to do.

The batsmen generally performed well enough, and now their remade bowling attack has finally gelled as a unit.

The nucleous of this team will still be together as players like Vaughan, Trescothick, Flintoff, Hoggard, Harmison etc will still be younger than their Aussie counterparts are now. The question mark is how long their middle order of Butcher, Hussain, Thorpe, Crawley & Stewart will continue, as it must be doubtful that all will play in the next Ashes Series, as all will be in their mid - late 30's or beyond.

:)
 

anzac

International Debutant
well done The Argonaut - good summation & I agree with your comments......saves me the job & avoids Rik reminding me again about my long posts.....:lol: :lol: :lol:

:)
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
James said:
What first comes to mind is that the loss of Warne and McGrath for this test has cost Australia the match.

If England had Thorpe, Gough, Giles, and a few others who were injured how would the series have went? Could England have taken the series?

Is Australia's depth really proven? Are there players after McGrath and Warne?
I wondered this - Aus minus their 2 main bowlers for 1 game, and nowhere near as strong. Eng were minus our main bowlers almost all series, but kept trying.

Had the situation been reversed (McGrath plays no games, Warne out all series, ditto Ponting) - what would've happened?
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
anzac said:
well done The Argonaut - good summation & I agree with your comments......saves me the job & avoids Rik reminding me again about my long posts.....:lol: :lol: :lol:

:)
They are so long they are scary! :lol:
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
Ok, England won and well done to them, it was a superb match with some amazing performances, even if it was dampened by England getting such a large score (and this is coming from an England Supporter) but nothing beats a close match. England were just about ahead throughout the game with Australia sometimes getting ahead but allways within catching distance. As for the Australian batting, it seemed to give up after they lost 3 Wickets on the 4th evening. There are a lot of excuses given for Australia's loss, Warne and McGrath the most obvious, but although the lack of a cutting edge in the bowling helped England set Australia such a huge last innings target, the real problem for Australia in this Test was their batting. Granted Hayden and Langer got poor desisions, but throughout the series they have made good starts as a partnership but not gone on like they have in the past. Ponting is looking like a rather livewire Number 3, Martyn doesn't look as comfortable at Number 4 as he did at Number 6, Steve Waugh couldn't repeat his 1st innings heroics after that superb 100, Love couldn't match his superb debut performance and Adam Gilchrist seemed to realise he was playing in a loosing cause in the 2nd innings and decided to have some fun till his luck ran out. To be fair the only 2 Australian batsmen who fired in this Test were Steve Waugh and Adam Gilchrist but when they didn't fire in the 2nd innings, Australia collapsed. Without Lee's late hitting in a lost cause and Bichel's quite fortunate 49 (I wish he would get 50 sometime, 48 and 49 in this series, how unlucky can you get?) Australia would have got out for a lot less than 226, and the already huge margin of defeat of 225 would have been even worse...

Sorry for such a long post Anzac ;)
 

chris.hinton

International Captain
It was fantastic that we had won but it strange that Australia had not lost at home for 4 years.

Aussies had some bad decisions but they have to take the rough with the smooth.

Hoggard was impressive ( Which i was surpised about) he has got his confidence back

Caddick was superb and deserved 7 wickets, he is starting to adapt to the "Number 1 bowler" that Gough Had

Harmision bowled well on the final day and he is a big plus

Dawson although got a wicket bowled poor and it does not look like he is a world-class spinner (YET)


Michael Vaughan is fantastic but why did we wait until he was 25 until we pick him
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
chris.hinton said:
Michael Vaughan is fantastic but why did we wait until he was 25 until we pick him
Well he's like a Trescothick or a Stewart, he did not do enough to get picked till he reached that age. Remember Vaughan was unsure of his place in the side or what his role was until the Sri Lanka and India series, his rise has been quite sudden, in New Zealand we saw the 1st signs that he had started to try and be more attacking and dominating, but after that series his average was still around 30. If he had been picked any earlier I don't think he would have been ready and he might not have reached the level he is at now. He's only really come of form since he started opening, and he had to wait till Atherton retired before he could get the chance.
 

chris.hinton

International Captain
Rik said:
Well he's like a Trescothick or a Stewart, he did not do enough to get picked till he reached that age. Remember Vaughan was unsure of his place in the side or what his role was until the Sri Lanka and India series, his rise has been quite sudden, in New Zealand we saw the 1st signs that he had started to try and be more attacking and dominating, but after that series his average was still around 30. If he had been picked any earlier I don't think he would have been ready and he might not have reached the level he is at now. He's only really come of form since he started opening, and he had to wait till Atherton retired before he could get the chance.
Yeah but surely they would have seen his talent but it does not matter he is the best opener in the world
 

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
chris.hinton said:
Yeah but surely they would have seen his talent but it does not matter he is the best opener in the world
Talent sometimes takes a long time to shine through, other times exposing it too early on can ruin a player. When England picked Vaughan for the tour of SA he was only averaging 27 in the CC and I was quite surprised that they did so. Even though he played one good knock in that series I don't think any of the selectors thought that Vaughan would become the player he is now. Remember, when they picked him he was a very defensive gritty player, now he is an attacking free flowing batsman. The change is all in his head. I suppose he just thought he was an average county batsman but now he belives that he's a World Class Opener. Not knowing which place in the order he was best suited to in the England Team didn't help his early development as a Test Player either.
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Congrats England! Congrats Vaughan! Congrats Caddick! Congrats Hussain! This test showed again how much the Aussie attack depends on McGrath and Warne. Most of the bowlers in this test were reasonably experienced, but they just weren't good enough when asked to take the lead. They are all great as support bowlers around the big two, but just not good enough on their own.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
New World Rankings published

Vaughan is number 2, just 10 behind Hayden now - if Hayden has a poor trot, then he may drop behind now, and if not, Vaughan's next 2 games are aginst Zimbabwe.

Caddick has leapt up to World Number 6, and is at his highest rating ever - not bad for someone whose been slated so much recently!
 

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