**Official** 2004 Natwest Series (Eng, NZL, WI)

[luckyeddie]

I've heard comments previously that it's ok to be smacked as long as you're taking wickets...well NZ kind of did that yesterday & ended up losing.

Yes, but it WAS against a full-strength Derbyshire.

In 1997, we beat the Aussies in a first-class match, so a one-dayer against New Zealand was a banker.

 

[_Ed_]

Franklin 2-46 off 10.

Butler went 54 off 8. If he plays against the quality ODI batsmen England and WI have it could be truly disastrous for NZ. Even Wiseman managed to hit a six off his bowling in the State Shield this season!

 

[Tim]

It could be worse...we could have had Wiseman over there bowling to England & The West Indies.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Well the win by Derbyshire over New Zealand has shocked me!

Nice confidence booster for the WI for knocking off Ireland.

Except for the fact that only two batsmen crossed 20 and one of them was Lara.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yes, but it WAS against a full-strength Derbyshire.

In 1997, we beat the Aussies in a first-class match, so a one-dayer against New Zealand was a banker.

Shame about the games against county sides ey?

 

[luckyeddie]

Shame about the games against county sides ey?

Hey.

I'm trying to boost your guys' morale by being derisory to the New Zealanders.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Hey.

I'm trying to boost your guys' morale by being derisory to the New Zealanders.

We just thrashed Bangladesh 3-0 (at least the scoreline suggests it ). We're flying on confidence now.

 

[Loony BoB]

Not just Butler. There wasn't a single New Zealand bowler who emerged from the game with any credit.

That's a tad harsh. Check the eco rates:

Tuffey - 4.45 (9.4 overs)
Butler - 6.89 (9)
Frankllin - 4.22 (9)
Harris - 4.38 (8)
Oram - 4.00 (7)
Styris - 8.00 (6)

Tuffey, Franklin, Harris and Oram all did pretty well. Franklin took wickets and had a low eco rate, oram had a great eco rate of 4.00 and Tuffey bowled a couple of maidens. You can't fault them for that. Harris wasn't too shabby. Styris and Butler just got smacked, it seems. Tuffey was even bowling at the end, showing that either Butler or Styris wasn't just unlucky to bowl at the death of the game.

 

[luckyeddie]

That's a tad harsh. Check the eco rates:

Woah, woah, woah.

I said 'no-one emerged with any credit' not 'no-one performed adequately against arguably the weakest first-class county in the country', neither did I say 'Scott Styris bowled like a man with no arms'.

 

[tooextracool]

Yes, but it WAS against a full-strength Derbyshire.

In 1997, we beat the Aussies in a first-class match, so a one-dayer against New Zealand was a banker.

ahhh 97 when we whitewashed australia in the ODI series....

 

[tooextracool]

Except for the fact that only two batsmen crossed 20 and one of them was Lara.

well the other one was dwayne bravo so that holds good for the future.....

 

[Revelation]

well the other one was dwayne bravo so that holds good for the future.....

i'd prefer lara in form than anyone else.....sorry to say so...lara has the ability to singlehandedly turn a match on its head. i don' think that any other WI can do that......i know that it means still heavily depending on brian but i think that if we want to win in England then we need an in form lara.as i have told so many of my friends....lara has absolutely nothing left to prove.he has accomplished more than anyone in the history of Test match batting and that is a fact. he has a genuine interest in seeing the WI winning games and i think that it is this dedication that will cause him to truly be remembered as one of the greatest to have ever played the game.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

i'd prefer lara in form than anyone else.....sorry to say so...lara has the ability to singlehandedly turn a match on its head. i don' think that any other WI can do that......i know that it means still heavily depending on brian but i think that if we want to win in England then we need an in form lara.as i have told so many of my friends....lara has absolutely nothing left to prove.he has accomplished more than anyone in the history of Test match batting and that is a fact. he has a genuine interest in seeing the WI winning games and i think that it is this dedication that will cause him to truly be remembered as one of the greatest to have ever played the game.

I disagree. Lara is a great player. Form is temporary, class is permanent. It's highly unlikely that Lara would not have an impact on the Natwest series even if he scored first ballers in all the warmups. With that in mind, I'd prefer to have the rest of the team in form leading into the series. These days I back Lara to get runs every time he goes to bat, but if he fails and others aren't in form, the team is in trouble. He's only human. Therefore it's better that the other men get a chance to find some runs.

 

[Adamc]

I disagree. Lara is a great player. Form is temporary, class is permanent. It's highly unlikely that Lara would not have an impact on the Natwest series even if he scored first ballers in all the warmups. With that in mind, I'd prefer to have the rest of the team in form leading into the series. These days I back Lara to get runs every time he goes to bat, but if he fails and others aren't in form, the team is in trouble. He's only human. Therefore it's better that the other men get a chance to find some runs.

Speaking of which, Lara is only 13 runs behind Haynes on the West Indies' all-time ODI runscoring list.

 

[Revelation]

Lara should also be able to pass Saeed Anwar and move to 7th on the all time list. He needs a couple more centuries to break into the 20 century club.

In Tests, he's 170 away from 10,000. Should he get there this series, he will be the fastest to 10,000. Lara should also pass Gavaskar who is only 292 runs in front. Should he do this, he would move into 3rd place on the all time list. He has 26 centuries. One more will break the WI record and tie him with Border on 27. (only Bradman (29),Waugh (32), Tendulkar (33) and Gavaskar (34) have more.) He also has 7 doubles. One more and he moves clear of Hammond into 2nd on the all time list of 200 makers. (only Bradman (12) has more). His 140 catches place him 3rd on the list of field catchers (not incl wkprs)

 

[Kent]

Does anyone know what happened to Fleming's supposed absence for this tournament?

I'm not sure if the injury has suddenly improved, or if Fleming felt that as captain (and one of the few players in form) he needed to go down with the ship, so to speak.

To be honest I'd rather he went and got the surgery done now, meaning they'll be no problems for the Champs Trophy, or at worst the tours of Bangladesh & Australia. Surely the BC's management wouldn't be considering letting Flem skip the Bangladesh tour. With no other willing leaders in the test side, things could get very ugly on that trip without his presence.

With Craig McMillan at the helm I'd be thinking "All Whites v. Vanuatu" ugly....

 

[Tim]

Cairns would captain the ODI side, and I think he does a reasonable job...but I have continuous nightmares about the test side & the likely fact that McMillan would skipper it if Fleming was absent.

Although with McMillan struggling to hold his place down in the test side, you'd think the selectors would give the captaincy to a player who is an almost certain starter.

I see McMillan is using a new 'Smasher' bat also used by Fidel Edwards & Ryan Hinds...apparently Wasim Akram has endorsed it too. I suppose McMillan is blaming previous bat sponsor GM for his form problems.

 

[Tim]

lol, I see in a recent survey on most kissable male celebrities in NZ, Stephen Fleming appeared.

There were 12 males to choose from & Fleming was one of them.
Although he didn't feature in the top 3...#1 went to Carlos Spencer while Paul Holmes (tv presenter) unsurprisingly got least kissable.

 

[Kent]

"Smasher"?!

Often these new contracts just mean a new sticker is put on, so there's a chance he might still using the same sawn-off pieces of lumber (rated the heaviest in international cricket by Martin Crowe).

Hopefully it is actually a new type of bat, because an increased ability to deflect and work the gaps is something he's desperately needed for a long time. That's part of why Hamish Marshall averages 40+ in ODIs and he's stuck in the 20's.

 

[Tim]

I think he's also hoping that the bat allows him to move his feet more too.