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**Official** 2004 Natwest Series (Eng, NZL, WI)

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Craig said:
Certainly not what I would (or instruct Vettor to do), as it takes away your chances of getting a wicket
As shown by C Cairns b Giles 1 this morning...


Craig said:
and if you require to tie down a batsman and hope he get's himself out, says something about the bowler and his ability to get wickets.
Or it says something about a team plan to avoid being put into a position where the batting team run away with the game, and guess what, it seemed to be pretty effective when he used it at Lords.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
a massive zebra said:
Well for him. The fact that an on form Giles still averages in excess of 40 tells you all you need to know.
]

Which is proved so fantastically by his tour of S.L...
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Craig said:
What left arm over the wicket ot he right-hander?

Certainly not what I would (or instruct Vettor to do), as it takes away your chances of getting a wicket, and if you require to tie down a batsman and hope he get's himself out, says something about the bowler and his ability to get wickets.
It is very effective, as long as you've got the right field.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Tom Halsey said:
It is very effective, as long as you've got the right field.
I agree and I think it could be used more often in certain situations.

For example, in the 2nd Test between WI and Bangladesh, Sarwan looked in untouchable form and the Bangladeshi bowlers seemed powerless to even come close to dismissing him. Despite all that, they (Manjural Islam Rana and Rafique) never tried bowling over the wicket, which was bordering on stupid.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
marc71178 said:
Why move Flintoff away from where he's been a resounding success?
well its not going to make much of a difference because hes going to be moved up and down that order based on the situation.....
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Craig said:
Certainly not what I would (or instruct Vettor to do), as it takes away your chances of getting a wicket, and if you require to tie down a batsman and hope he get's himself out, says something about the bowler and his ability to get wickets.
bowling over the wicket lets you pitch the ball into the rough and get more turn.....its not as negative as you may think if you bowl it in the right areas.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Why can't Harmison play in ODI's? On form he is a far better bowler than all the other bowlers in the team and has the ability to run through batting sides, which only Gough has, to a limted extent. If England have to take 10 wickets in an ODI, they can do it better with Harmison, can't they?
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Arjun said:
Why can't Harmison play in ODI's? On form he is a far better bowler than all the other bowlers in the team and has the ability to run through batting sides, which only Gough has, to a limted extent. If England have to take 10 wickets in an ODI, they can do it better with Harmison, can't they?
How's about the guy is carrying the attack in test matches anyway, he's under tremendous pressure (witness all the people just praying for him to fail so they can scream "I told you so") and it's about time someone else pulled their finger out.

Besides, ODI's suck.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Arjun said:
Why can't Harmison play in ODI's? On form he is a far better bowler than all the other bowlers in the team and has the ability to run through batting sides, which only Gough has, to a limted extent. If England have to take 10 wickets in an ODI, they can do it better with Harmison, can't they?
He was in tremendous form going into the ODI series in the West Indies...

6-0-34-0
7-1-16-1
10-1-74-1
10-0-52-1
10-0-51-1

Let the man have a rest.
 

SpaceMonkey

International Debutant
Mr Mxyzptlk said:
He was in tremendous form going into the ODI series in the West Indies...

6-0-34-0
7-1-16-1
10-1-74-1
10-0-52-1
10-0-51-1

Let the man have a rest.
Yep the guy means too much to us in tests to risk burning him out in one dayers, even if they are trying to make him more accurate by playing them. We have plenty One day bowlers like Anderson / Mahmood to bother trying to get Harmison or Jones into the one day side when they'll probably never be able to keep their Econ. down.
 

SpaceMonkey

International Debutant
Langeveldt said:
The latter of whom has never bowled a ball for England....
Yeah but he has a hell of a lot better one day average (under 20 this season i think) than Harmison and Jones who hardly even play one day games for their counties cos they arent accurate enough. Why risk Harmison when you can have Mahmood is my point not that im saying Mahmood will do well but id rather we played him than Hamison in the one dayers.
 

badgerhair

U19 Vice-Captain
luckyeddie said:
How's about the guy is carrying the attack in test matches anyway, he's under tremendous pressure (witness all the people just praying for him to fail so they can scream "I told you so") and it's about time someone else pulled their finger out.

Besides, ODI's suck.
Actually, I think the Harmosceptics have been well and truly silenced, since he's done it for eight-and-a-half matches in a row now. Let's put it this way: if he has a terrible game in the first Test against WI, how many people do you think will risk saying "I told you so" with another Test starting very soon afterwards?

They've already said that he won't play more than two one-dayers, and probably only one - which would be just fine for checking that he's still in some sort of rhythm in what would otherwise be a four-week layoff.

When it actually gets to the World Cup in 3 years' time, I expect that we'd think it lunacy to leave Harmison out of the team - he could be the unchallenged number one bowler in the world by then - and it would probably be a good idea if he played the odd game between now and then so he knows how to do it.

Cheers,

Mike
 

Langeveldt

Soutie
badgerhair said:
Actually, I think the Harmosceptics have been well and truly silenced, since he's done it for eight-and-a-half matches in a row now. Let's put it this way: if he has a terrible game in the first Test against WI, how many people do you think will risk saying "I told you so" with another Test starting very soon afterwards?

Serious Harmo-Sceptic here....

Will take quite a few bad performances for me to start saying "told you so"...
 

badgerhair

U19 Vice-Captain
Langeveldt said:
Serious Harmo-Sceptic here....

Will take quite a few bad performances for me to start saying "told you so"...
Just a little update on where he stands with regard to the sacrilegious comparisons with great bowlers' early careers: he's still way ahead of McGrath, and slightly ahead of Lillee, sandwiched between Holding below him and Thommo above. Tyson has dropped out of the picture, as he only played 17 Tests, so there's only Both and FST ahead of him in the English stakes now. Roberts, Garner, Croft and Hall are ahead, while Hadlee, Wasim, Ambrose and Marshall still trail in terms of stats after 19 Tests.

Cheers,

Mike
 

anzac

International Debutant
Franklin replaces Mills for NZL...........

oh and Papps & Vettori stay on as they're expected to recover from injury in time for the ODIs......... 8-)
 

_Ed_

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Ah, expected to recover in time for the ODIs. Jolly Good.

That means we might see them come back when the test series vs Australia starts.
 

Craig

World Traveller
Andre said:
Lol, hate to shoot down your wealth of spin knowledge and all, but he took 4 wickerts today so he must be doing something right...
So you think bowling his style isn't negative bowling or the correct method of getting a wicket?
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
The correct method - I thought that over the wicket was allowed in the rules? If it is, then it's wickets that count, not getting them in a good way.

Negative. There is rough there, and the only thing it takes out is LBW. If it spins - see the Cairns dismissal.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Craig said:
So you think bowling his style isn't negative bowling or the correct method of getting a wicket?
Just look in the book, Craig. There is no one 'correct' way of getting a wicket - you really have no argument at all.

What are you going to do - disqualify his wickets and award the third test result to New Zealand?

What about batsmen who play cross-batted shots, fielders who stop the ball with their feet, fast bowlers who aim at the body (choke) bowling AROUND the wicket? and the like?

Good garden stuff, not cricket, Bunty old man.
 

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