**Official** 2004 Natwest Series (Eng, NZL, WI)

[superkingdave]

The balance strikes me of being a bit off, I assume the top five will be
Tresco
Strauss
Vaughan
Flintoff
Collingwood

and the pace attack 3 from Gough, Hamrison, Anderson and Mahmood
either Giles or Blackwell as spin
Jones as WK

That means that Key or Mcgrath is batting at 6 or 7, they are not 6 or seven players in ODI, now they could move the top 5 but that doesn't make it any better. Bell might not be entirely comfortable with 6 but he'd be a lot better.

Also Key does not need easing into test cricket via ODI's, he's already played 8 tests.

 

[superkingdave]

I noticed Mcgrath has played 4 inns at number 6, but his SR of 49.14 is not good enough to bat there- come to think of it its not good enough to bat anywhere!

 

[Tim]

This ODI series could be quite good actually.
It appears as though NZ & England are at opposites at the moment...England playing well in tests, but still trying to work out the balance of their side in ODI's..whereas NZ are the other way around.

 

[tooextracool]

I can't be bothered to quote all the posts throughout the last few pages (you will know who you are), but iam guessing why some of the "Non looking" ODI type players like Key, Strauss etc etc get selected in the ODI's first is to ease them into the International set up - so playing Test cricket doesn't come as such a shock as you have been in and around the dressing room etc and ODI's are alot easier in the sense you turn up could do well might not, that's it play your natural game... with Tests it's alot more intensive etc and harder to adapt to.

well you dont go around picking players who arent suited to the ODI level and put them in the side....we've already seen what happened to troughton last year. in strauss' case it didnt make that much of a difference because strauss is capable of being an ODI cricketer, im not sure thats the case with key though. one must also remember that key has already been a part of this english side before so i dont see how a bunch of ODIs will help him 'ease him into the internatioanl set up'.
just looking at the make up of this english ODI side we apparently have 4 openers....tresco,vaughan,key and strauss which seems quite ludicrous and then we will probably see jones bat at 7. the point of jones batting at 7 absolutely baffles me.....complete waste of talent, its almost like batting alec stewart at 7.

 

[tooextracool]

That means that Key or Mcgrath is batting at 6 or 7, they are not 6 or seven players in ODI, now they could move the top 5 but that doesn't make it any better. Bell might not be entirely comfortable with 6 but he'd be a lot better.

key will bat at 3 or 4 IMO

 

[marc71178]

one must also remember that key has already been a part of this english side before so i dont see how a bunch of ODIs will help him 'ease him into the internatioanl set up'.

And one must also look at the fact there's no space to "ease him into" in the Test side!

 

[marc71178]

key will bat at 3 or 4 IMO

So who moves down then?

Vaughan and Trescothick are certains, as are Flintoff and Collingwood, and I can't see them dropping Strauss.

Key for me won't make the line-up.

Trescothick
Vaughan
Strauss
Collingwood
Flintoff
Jones
Blackwell
Mahmood
Gough
Anderson
Harmison

 

[superkingdave]

key will bat at 3 or 4 IMO

So you'll have Collingwood or Flintoff batting six?
The only thing i can see Key doing is slowing the run rate down while he makes 10 of 30 balls before getting out.

 

[tooextracool]

And one must also look at the fact there's no space to "ease him into" in the Test side!

thats no reason to put him in a form of game that doesnt suit him and effectively run the risk of ruining his test career. his best chance is to take the advantage of an injury to one of the batsmen as strauss did.

 

[tooextracool]

So who moves down then?

Vaughan and Trescothick are certains, as are Flintoff and Collingwood, and I can't see them dropping Strauss.

Key for me won't make the line-up.

Trescothick
Vaughan
Strauss
Collingwood
Flintoff
Jones
Blackwell
Mahmood
Gough
Anderson
Harmison

thats almost certainly not going to be the england starting XI....we've already seen how much duncan fletcher seems to like batting depth and putting blackwell at 7 does leave a very long tail.
whats most likely is...
tresco
vaughan
strauss
key
collingwood
flintoff
jones
blackwell
gough
harmison
anderson/mahmood

that still leaves 3 players who shouldnt be in the side at all.....key,jones and harmison.

 

[tooextracool]

So you'll have Collingwood or Flintoff batting six?
The only thing i can see Key doing is slowing the run rate down while he makes 10 of 30 balls before getting out.

which is largely why he shouldnt be in the side at all....unless you believe that key is better off batting at 7 in the slog overs. the batting order will be shuffled around based on the situation....flintoff or blackwell may be sent up the order if there is a need for quick runs and key will be pushed down....but since key is a defensive player i would think that he will bat up the order.

 

[Craig]

Why, Giles is actually bowling pretty well this summer...

What left arm over the wicket ot he right-hander?

Certainly not what I would (or instruct Vettor to do), as it takes away your chances of getting a wicket, and if you require to tie down a batsman and hope he get's himself out, says something about the bowler and his ability to get wickets.

 

[Craig]

Why would we want Spearman when we can have Flower, Law, Pieterson

Personally it will be a backward step if England picked Stuart Law.

As good as a player he may be, England look like they might actually be settling as a Test and ODI team, and might be together for some time and be very competitive v Australia next year.

Face it, it will be the defining moment in the career's of Andrew Flintoff and Steve Harmison who will enharnce their reputation if they preform next year.

Paul Collingwood could do with a run scoring splee for Durham, for confidence in him by the selectors, and for Collingwood's own confidence and in form for England.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Personally it will be a backward step if England picked Stuart Law.

As good as a player he may be, England look like they might actually be settling as a Test and ODI team, and might be together for some time and be very competitive v Australia next year.

Face it, it will be the defining moment in the career's of Andrew Flintoff and Steve Harmison who will enharnce their reputation if they preform next year.

Paul Collingwood could do with a run scoring splee for Durham, for confidence in him by the selectors, and for Collingwood's own confidence and in form for England.

He was only Joking about Law, the ECB have already said they wouldnt pick Law due to his age.

 

[Rich2001]

Pfffffffft so how the hell did McGrath get in then! Bloody selectors! I really feel for Bell cos if he cant get in now he wont stand much chance for the ICC champions trophy as Pieterson will be eligable for selection then and i really cant see them not putting him STRAIGHT into the one day team at least.

I guess simply McGrath hasn't played so you can't really drop him on the basics that hasn't done well as he hasn't had the chance... whereas the guy ahead of him Clarke has played and has failed so he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Also I don't know if you have noticed but McGrath is actually batting rather well in the domestic game at the moment, whereas Clarke is doing umm not a lot.

I wouldn't worry to much it wont be long now afterall the selectors can't be made to look like idots as 6 months ago they were saying this is our core team and now changing it completly

 

[Rich2001]

For me I would say - It's NOT in batting order.

Michael Vaughan
Marcus Trescothick
Andrew Strauss
Paul Collingwood
Andrew Flintoff
Robert Key
Geraint Jones
Ian Blackwell / Giles
Darren Gough
Sajid Mahmood
James Anderson

* Stephen Harmison (Can't see England leaving him out, but I hope they do for his fittness and just the fact he is poor in the OD'ers) & Anthony McGrath and one of the spinners miss out.

* The reason it is not in batting order is the fact the team is so easy to change to the match sitiuation, Colly could swap with Key to see the innings home, Freddie could move up the order to up the rate... Jones could come above Key to give it a bit of a wack, Key to open with Tresco and have Strauss @ 3 and Vaughan @ 4 etc etc

* Dispite Jones @ 7 there is still a mass of bowling Anderson, Mahmood, Gough, Blackwell, Flintoff, Collingwood, Vaughan and Trescothick can all bowl so easy to fill the 50 overs if someone has an off day.

 

[Andre]

What left arm over the wicket ot he right-hander?

Certainly not what I would (or instruct Vettor to do), as it takes away your chances of getting a wicket, and if you require to tie down a batsman and hope he get's himself out, says something about the bowler and his ability to get wickets.

Lol, hate to shoot down your wealth of spin knowledge and all, but he took 4 wickerts today so he must be doing something right...

 

[superkingdave]

Lol, hate to shoot down your wealth of spin knowledge and all, but he took 4 wickerts today so he must be doing something right...

Yeah ask Chris Cairns

 

[Rich2001]

Lol, hate to shoot down your wealth of spin knowledge and all, but he took 4 wickerts today so he must be doing something right...

Giles is a handy bowler if he gets to dominate, but if a batsman goes after him and tries to dominate Giles he never has a answer and goes for like 35 from 5 overs.

 

[marc71178]

tresco
vaughan
strauss
key
collingwood
flintoff
jones
blackwell
gough
harmison
anderson/mahmood

Why move Flintoff away from where he's been a resounding success?