**Official** 2004 Natwest Series (Eng, NZL, WI)

[Neil Pickup]

hey neil.. with your writeup on the front page..

u cant actually tell who england are playing till near the end of the writeup lol

You try writing coherently when your national side has just played like a bunch of ten year olds!

I'll always write with an Anglo-centric bias in my reports on England because I'm an English fan (and have been for 14 of my 19 years) and it's pretty difficult to see past travesties like that... and it's always my turn to write about them when they happen.

I'll make sure I remember to put "England smashed New Zealand by 287 runs" as the opening line of the final report, if it makes you happy..

 

[marc71178]

It is a good call though. Giles is a pedestrian, not needed in the team at all. There are better options than use Giles.

Like who?

Giles did well in the Test series (in spite of what people try to say) and there's not a better spin option to suit the balance of the side.

 

[anzac]

its not as much about pace in ODIs as it is about accuracy....the faster it comes out the faster its likely to go to the boundary as well.

Agreed in principal, however I'd like to have a 'hurry up option' like Harmison where the pace of delivery can induce a false shot a la Fleming or Marshall........

if only Butler could include some variety to his deliveries so his short ball is not his standard delivery.........

 

[anzac]

despite all the success that hes had in england i'd still maintain my exertion that hes too one dimensional to succeed at the test match level.....he needs a bit of pace and a lot more accuracy to prevent himself from becoming just another bracken.....

he's still pretty raw at int level, but I'd like to persist with him, C Martin & even Butler for a few series to see what they are made of...........

Martin has shown he can take wickets - he may not be able to use the Duke balls, Butler has the talent to develope along the lines of Harmison & has youth on his side, Franklin is also young & may be able to pick up a yard in pace - so long as he maintains the ability to swing the ball he provides a different line of attack..........

as I said in an earlier post my main concern is that they are all about the same pace & right arm over - Vettori, Franklin & Butler being the only exceptions while Bond is out of the picture........

it is because of this that I am an advocate for 'horses for courses' selections - when you have a limited pool of resources you must be smart & use what you have to get the best performances until you are able to develope genuine world class players...........note that I'm not talking about wholesale changes to the lineup, primarily a max of 2 batsmen & 2 bowlers for the squads depending on Tour venues........so perhaps a regular players base of about 16 or so...........

 

[V Reddy]

Blackwell and Solanki are far more effective than Clarke, once they get runs. We have seen what they can do best- Solanki scored that century which had a hand in winning a match, while Blackwell scored a powerful 84 in the Champions Trophy in 2002, so if they can maintain this form for a long time, it wouldd help the English ODI side.

IMO Solanki would be very dangerous on flat tracks but would always continue to struggle on pitches which offer help to the seamers as he is too attacking as a batman. Nowadays there are more flat tracks than pitches which help seamers. He did well against Pakistan and South Africa on flat tracks but failed to get past 10 on pitches which help seamers a bit.

I would persist with Blackwell instead of Giles for a while yet.

The best scenario for me would be to turn Micheal Vaughan into a Chris Gayle . IMO, he is a much better bowler than both Clarke and Mcgrath and also make people like Trescothick, Collingwood bowl more. Surely Vaughan should put team interests before his and bowl himself more

 

[marc71178]

Vaughan has on more then one occasion said he doesn't think his bowling is actually that good, and he's amazed how people keep saying he should bowl.

 

[roseboy64]

England's selection policies are a bit weird.They pick a pretty good Test team but make wholesale changeODI team and produce a pretty crappy team.The West Indies and New ZEaland don't have very good Test teams but good ODI teams with pretty much the same pool of players.

 

[V Reddy]

Vaughan has on more then one occasion said he doesn't think his bowling is actually that good, and he's amazed how people keep saying he should bowl.

It's also amazing that he thinks that McGrath and Clarke are intl class . It doesn't matter what he thinks about his bowling , if the results are good and his past bowling performances have been good. It's always better for the balance of the team to let a couple of batsman bowl than make up for it by including a couple of players who are neither good at both.

 

[Kent]

Just in some unrelated NZ news....

Jesse Ryder has signed for Wellington, I read in the Dom Post this morning. He may turn out to be the most high-maintenence player we've had since Heath Davis, but it's good that he'll have the chance to make a fresh start next summer.

The article isn't online yet, but if you do a search at news.google.com later in the day you'll probably find it.

 

[Mingster]

Just in some unrelated NZ news....

Jesse Ryder has signed for Wellington, I read in the Dom Post this morning. He may turn out to be the most high-maintenence player we've had since Heath Davis, but it's good that he'll have the chance to make a fresh start next summer.

The article isn't online yet, but if you do a search at news.google.com later in the day you'll probably find it.

Good to se Ryder finally signing with a province, after the debacles of last season CD was never going to be an option.

Wellington is an inconsistent side, but also a side on the up. Ryder will at least be confirmed a starting spot in both competitions and would be a healthy addition to their batting lineup. But with Jones leaving, the top order looks shaky.

 

[Mingster]

Like who?

Giles did well in the Test series (in spite of what people try to say) and there's not a better spin option to suit the balance of the side.

Eh playing another specialist batsman? I thought you would have got into that by now considering all the comments of specialists on this thread.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Eh playing another specialist batsman? I thought you would have got into that by now considering all the comments of specialists on this thread.

That would leave us with McGrath, Collingwood and Blackwell needing to contribute 20 overs and in all likelihood leaking 120+.

 

[Mingster]

he's still pretty raw at int level, but I'd like to persist with him, C Martin & even Butler for a few series to see what they are made of...........

Martin has shown he can take wickets - he may not be able to use the Duke balls, Butler has the talent to develope along the lines of Harmison & has youth on his side, Franklin is also young & may be able to pick up a yard in pace - so long as he maintains the ability to swing the ball he provides a different line of attack..........

as I said in an earlier post my main concern is that they are all about the same pace & right arm over - Vettori, Franklin & Butler being the only exceptions while Bond is out of the picture........

it is because of this that I am an advocate for 'horses for courses' selections - when you have a limited pool of resources you must be smart & use what you have to get the best performances until you are able to develope genuine world class players...........note that I'm not talking about wholesale changes to the lineup, primarily a max of 2 batsmen & 2 bowlers for the squads depending on Tour venues........so perhaps a regular players base of about 16 or so...........

What 16 players?

NZ doesn't need a player who can blast people out in ODIs, because Bond is that, and it is useless in trying to deliberately shove Butler in the side to do a "Bond-job".

The current attack of Tuffey, Franklin, Oram, Cairns and Styris has done the good recently and should be continued with.

People of the same pace isn't an issue in ODIs, you just need to be consistent.

 

[Mingster]

That would leave us with McGrath, Collingwood and Blackwell needing to contribute 20 overs and in all likelihood leaking 120+.

Firstly there is no point in playing boyh Blackwell and Giles unless its a spinning track.

McGrath has shown nothing at international level, drop him. And pick another specialist batsman or bowler depending on the makeup of the side.

 

[Neil Pickup]

From Cricinfo:

Duncan Fletcher, England's coach, has called for calm after England's embarrassing drubbings in the last two NatWest Series matches. Despite a couple of woeful batting displays in which England have been bowled out for 147 and 101, Fletcher has urged the selectors not to make any changes to the team.

"I'd like to see the side stay the same." Fletcher said. "We've been through this with the Test side and it's because they've stayed together and know their roles that they are functioning so well."

Even though there have been calls for specialist players to play in the side, rather than allrounders like Ian Blackwell and Anthony McGrath, who Bob Willis yesterday described as "average county players", Fletcher is adamant he is taking England on the right path. "We have to find allrounders," he stressed. "People talk about bits and pieces players, but all these allrounders in Australia and South Africa started out as bits and pieces players and they are now quality allrounders and that's what often happens."

He continued, "You very rarely find a genuine allrounder straightaway. I'm sure at one stage Andrew Flintoff could have been looked at as a bits-and-pieces player and now he's a quality allrounder - as you get experience that's what happens."

All very well about a settled side... but you can't polish a turd.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Firstly there is no point in playing boyh Blackwell and Giles unless its a spinning track.

McGrath has shown nothing at international level, drop him. And pick another specialist batsman or bowler depending on the makeup of the side.

So what's your England XI then?

 

[Mingster]

Add Bell or Key in for Blackwell, McGrath for another specialist bowler.

Until Flintoff comes back, this side is screwed.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Fair comment..

 

[ChrisPowell]

Think we should re-shuffle the order, stick Vaughan down a bit (4?) and have Strauss as an Opener, also put everyone under threat. Get Key or Bell into the side batting at 3 and get Blackwell out, then give Geraint Jones 5th 6th or 7th in the batting line up.

 

[Neil Pickup]

So you're suggesting:

Trescothick
Strauss
Key
Vaughan
Collingwood
Jones
McGrath
Giles
Gough
Harmison
Anderson?