*Official* 1st Test - England v India - Keep all Discussion Here Please!

[scorpio]

I think its about time you learn how to use statsguru. It would greatly help. I am not sure, but I think you are saying that its not possible to get the stats I quoted. So does that mean I am making it up? Also, if I can prove they are correct would you be convinced, or they dont mean a thing even if they are accurate?

Dude are u dumb or what ? i am just having a argument with u. Nothing personal.

This is what i wrote...

I coulnt find a website which breaks up his avg before captaincy and puts it in a readable format. .here is a link
EDIT: Sorry. It screws up the display. Check statsguru in cric info.com

Jeez thts big.
In short against wI,AUS,SA,PAk his avg was 33 and lower. He has alwys struggled against genuine pace and away matches. Just tht his weakness was exploited more as he became captain.

See that EDIT. I had the link from statsguru. But it spoiled the display making it 3 screens wide. Thts why i removed it. Would help if u can understand english.
Oh wait i have to make things clear coz u obviously cant read.

I know u didnt make up stats. The trouble with statsguru is it doesnt break the stats in terms of performance against each country if u use filters. THts why i prefer www.howstat.com

Now let me deal with the crap you wrote.

Buddy, you just dont want to acknowledge the fact that his performance became much worse as captain. Before becoming the cap'n, bad technique or not, he was averaging 46, and that in no way is bad. So you saying that all of a sudden wen he became captain everyone figured out his weakness!! That is absolutely hilarious.

South Africa in India, 1996/97 - avg 21.5
India in West Indies, 1996/97 - 19.5
Border-Gavaskar Trophy (Aus/Ind) in India, 1997/98 - 32.2
Border-Gavaskar Trophy (Aus/Ind) in Australia, 1999/00 - 29.5
South Africa in India, 1999/00 - 11.75

These are his avg in various series before he became captain. How did he get his avg to 46 then ? Here take this..

India in England, 1996 - 105.0
Border-Gavaskar Trophy (Aus/Ind) in India, 1996/97 - 87.0
India in Sri Lanka, 1997/98 - 64
Sri Lanka in India, 1997/98 - 98
India in Zimbabwe, 1998/99 - 41
New Zealand in India, 1999/00 - 125

Can you see a pattern here ? .....waiting for your brain to make a connection...oh obviously u failed to see it..let me explain

He alwys struggled against pace. Overall his avg looks healthy. But against good pace attacks and away matches he has sucked. Infact the India-WI series recently was the only series against a decent pace attack that he has performed.

Am i making myself clear so far ? Hope so..coz i dont know how else to explain to u..

Ganguly had managed to hide his weakness till SA toured india. In the onedays he made two centuries but elworthy alyws had him hopping when he bounced him. Come the test matches he was suddely high profile.And the aussies took full toll. Now the word has spread so every bowler bowls short to him now. Thts the story buddy..

Hint: Just dont blindly look at averages. See how a batsmen performed at home and away and also how he fares against quality opposition. Oh or better actually watch matches...

Fair enough, good point. But I have never said Kapil was a stellar captain. I think I wnet a little too far saying Ganguly was worse then the rest of the Indian captains. I guess he is similar.

Ganguly is not the world best captain by any stretch of imagination. I have said this so many times. He is easily one of india's best ever captains. The trouble is he is no grt shakes as a tactician. But what helps him grt is that he is a team man, motivates his teammates, stands up for the players, stands up to bullies, and is not afraid of a battle.
THis has rubbed off to the team making them fight harder. We will soon need a better captain ..but right now there is not a single player who has better credentials than him.

Obviously laxman and dravid are smarter and much more smoother. But there is no guarentee that they would handle the pressure. Captaincy in india is a much harder task than any where in the world ( save pakistan) ..so factor that too..
The media pressure, state bias, dumb selectors, corrupt officials..a fickle media and a fanatic crowd can leave a captain drained on the field.

So far ganguly has done a grt job ..with the numerous youngsters performing and some quality players not able to get in..with a couple of performing bowlers this team could go a long way..

Ok..part two to follow

 

[scorpio]

Wow, its that simple isnt it. So I guess at that time you must have predicted that India were the pre-turnament odds on favorites, as they were 'tailor made' for England.... Havent heard anything more ridiculous than that. That victory by India has got to be one of the most shocking victories in cricket ever. Its should be an inspiration for underdogs everywhere.

In 96 only Richard hadlee predicted that SL were the dark horses. But on hindsight every one could see that with the bevy of batsmen and spinners galore and tactics tailor made for the Subcontinent SL should have been one of the favs.

Almost the same team that won the 83 world cup won the 85 WSC and the 86 tour in england .why ?
Coz binny,madan lal,chetan sharma,Sandhu, kapil - All are swing and seam bowlers. They could perform at their optimum only in helpful conditions. On hind sight it would appear that india atleast stood a chance. Tht world cup was defintely inspired by kapils 175..but apart from that cup..kapil did nothing,zilch,nada.
He did inspire the team on odd occasion.But had no lasting effect on the team a la ganguly.

When he left he was India's best pacer along with Srinath. And the type of pacers India produces, selectors would have been more than happy to have Kapil play a few more matches. His last few series:

3 matches 7 wkts at 19 runs in India vs Eng
3 matches 7 wkts at 25 runs in India vs SL

Not bad for an Indian fast bowler anytime.

THis is possibly the most ridicolus argument i ever saw. Have u ever watched those matches ? Every one knows that kapil's last good performance was 91 downunder. After that he got like 33 WICKETS IN 16 TESTS. THIS INCLUDES 6 TESTS IN PACE FRIENDLY CONDITIONS.
In 6 away tests he got 13 wickets at an avg of 34 wickets.
Towards the end he was bowled just to take the shine of the new ball and then bowl at the tail enders. Azhar even asked KUMBLE to bowl wide so that kapil would reach his record. He should have retired at the end of the 92 world cup.

All the while India's fastest ever bowler missed 10 tests coz kapil held on to his place coz of his reputation. Every one knows these facts but you choose to quote stats.

Again watch matches and not blindly follow stats.

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Sunny was too defensive and had no ammo

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what the **** is ammo?

Ammo here means he never had the bowlers who could bowl out the opposition.Save the wisecracks..plz..coz it makes u look even more dumb.

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Steve waugh started his customary disintegration bullshit. But he found tht ganguly was willing to go as low as he did. I still cant forget the way the entire aussie media,explayers and indian media going after savrav.
Bottomline: Aussies tried to put pressure on him and ended up getting caught in their own net. (hint: they folded under pressure)

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And then you guys call me deluded

WHich part didnt you not understand ? Let me give a small refresher course. The slagging over the media started when waugh accused ganguly of interfering with the pitch preparation. Ganguly hit back. The whole aussie media and team joined waugh in the mud slinging. Ganguly stood alone and fought back. Then came the news abt his affair with a actress...now the indian media fresh from Azhar's debacle with anothr actress slammed ganguly.
His batting suffered like hell. Laxman saved his a ss once. Then in the final test the power struggle between waugh and Buchanan..and waugh own stupidity saw him make a mistake with team selection and he handled the ball(crumbled under pressure)..and the rest is history.

Read my other thread abt the series where i wrote stuff in detail. Yeah u still are deluded.

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Ian chappell is not privy to what happens in the dressing room is he ?
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So did S Waugh had info about the going ons in the dressing room. As you gave S Waugh's favorable commments as points to back your argument.

Waugh played against ganguly in the ground. Chappel played from the media room. Waugh didnt sing a 10 page paen to ganguly. He acknowledged that he did a good job. Which he did even at the end of the series. he still says that he is pain but did a good job as captain And is TOUGH.

Chappell..he alws whined abt ganguly. When ganguly admonished dravid during the match he said on TV tht ganguly is a disgrace and doesnt know how to behave to a teammate.
But who the **** is he to decide how ganguly should act? His teammates had no problem with his behaviour. If thts the way he wants to run the team let him as long as the results come.

Nasser hussain is another player who cusses at his players if they done perform. Why hasnt chappell whined against him ?

Imran used to yell and swear at the team ..coz he was like the patriarch..why hast Lord Chappell whined abt him ?

I know tht defeat hurt australia..but get over it already. The english and aussie media has alwys whined against anyone who performs against them and stands up to thier bullying tactics.

 

[scorpio]

Are you from sports.com and have we had arguments before? Are you sensibleGuy by any chance? How often does that happen that the active team-members or coach criticize the active captain. So this is the best argument you can come up with to support Ganguly as captain?

I posted twice as scorpio in sports.com.But the racism and stupiduity made me think other wise. No i am not sensible guy or anyone. I thought you and couple others were the decent ones there.Now looks like i was wrong.

His present teammates, past teammates, players who lost their place after ganguly became captain, explayers( except a few bitter old bags) have not said anything except praises abt him. Wht else do u need?

Every captain he has played has acknowledged that he did a good job. not nuff for u ?

Steve waugh.

I stick to my views abt waugh. He is smart cunning etc. But as a captain whenver he has come up against a team that matches his firepower or has a brilliant tactician he has flopped. ( india, NZ and the recent one day vs pak -though tht could be one off)

Whenver he has gone up against soft captains he has come out on top. (Pollock,tendulkar,Akram under match fixing cloud and weakened by team politics, jimmy adams and Zimbabwe and of course the mentally defeated poms).
hope nasser doest flop this time around.

Steve waugh is still a quality captain. But tactically fleming and nasser are superior to him. Where waugh scores is his grt mental strenght and abiltity to inspire and support his teammates to greater heights and his amazing ability to come up with match saving performances and his TEAMS BRUTE STRENGTH.

Here is a interview where a teammate who has had a raw deal talks abt ganguly and waugh.
http://www.rediff.com/cricket/2001/may/28ramesh.htm

I am posting a few juicu bits so that u get the idea.

How would you rate Sourav Ganguly's contribution to the side?

Very highly. Sourav is a very interactive captain. Even as a batsman alone, he inspires a lot of confidence and as a captain, he is very tough mentally, his body language never indicates that he is feeling down, or lost. One good thing about him is that he really talks to the players. It is really a great advantage that we have him as our captain, and that the other seniors like Rahul and Sachin are also of our own age group.
There's been a lot of fuss about what Sourav has said at times, but I support him one hundred pre cent. You can't be nice to everyone, all the time. If Steve (Waugh) talks like that it is gamesmanship, if Sourav Ganguly talks like that he is arrogant?! That is most unfair. Another thing is that Sourav backs his mates even when they are on a low, or losing, and that is a huge thing for us. Sourav, in fact, at one time asked me if I thought he was arrogant, and I said I didn't think so. Sourav is a superb leader of men.

.......

The series was really black and white wasn't it? India was outplayed in Mumbai and for half of the Kolkatta Test -- and then the Aussies were on the receiving end. When and how did the tide change, what are the moments you remember vividly?

I think the second innings of the Kolkata Test changed the tide for us. But besides the batting of Laxman and Dravid, it was our attitude in the field that took the Aussies by surprise. The Aussies had never expected us to be aggressive on the field.
When Steve Waugh walked into bat, he found all of us going at him. We started giving it to him, and he didn't know how to react. We kept telling him that if he was the best batsman in the world then this was the time to prove it, to show us how good he was against spinners. He was getting edges every second ball or so and really struggling, and at the same time he didn't know which of us to take on, because I would say something about his edge from forward short leg and Rahul and Saurav were at him from the slips and Das was saying things from silly point.
That was the first time I've seen Steve lose it, really get irritated.
The Aussies, we realised, are very tough on the outside but if you can really put pressure on them, they collapse completely. They can't bat under pressure. In the last 15 Tests they've played, except the one game against Pakistan in the second Test, their batting never came under real pressure. We thought about that, and we used it to our advantage.

This is just one interview buddy..

 

[scorpio]

Imran , javed and captaincy

I stick to my views buddy. Imran was a good captain.But he had a grt vice captain in Miandad. He deserves as much credit as imran does. So imran won all away matches and javed won on dead flat home tracks ? Good argument there.

It has been the curse of the subcontinent that politics plays as much an part as talent plays. So imrans biggest asset was his stature and his ability to play team politics. Ever since those two retired pak has been stumbling from one disaster to another coz despite their talent coz of thier politics. For your info..AKram performed better under Javed than miandad..

Cheers..hope u shake off the drugs and wake up

 

[aussie_beater]

I think Ian Chappel is the biggest bigot there is, in cricket.He built that image of the "ugly Aussies" in the seventies and he hasn't let up yet.His comments about Ganguly aren't worth a penny and should be simply disregarded.

 

[aussie_beater]

Listen Mr.RoyGilchrist, get this straight....Ganguly may not be the greatest capo around, but he ain't no chicken either.He already has become the second most successful captain in Indian cricket and that goes to tell you that he ain't no pushover if you just go by statistics alone.And it includes an Indian record of test victories away from home for any Indian captain ever.And on top of it he has given Indian cricket the likes of Yuvraj Singh,Sehwag, Harbhajan and Kaif through his unflinching support for these blokes and they feel inspired enough to give performances that could only augur good for Indian cricket.By doing this he has brought about a sense of kinship in the Indian team that didn't exist when Azhar used to lead the bunch or even Sachin used to lead the team.That's the stuff leaders are supposed to bring to the table and Ganguly is as good as any on that count.He can improve upon his cricketing acumen by being a better tactician and lead by example by overcoming his batting limitations.Those qualities are something that everybody improves upon as time goes, Waugh's case being one of the most glaring examples.

And to top it all, there isn't a challenger to Ganguly's seat in sight....Rahul Dravid isn't good enough.He shirks from responsibilities and is too pansy to lead the team in the tough waters of international cricket.

 

[royGilchrist]

Guys our arguments and counter arguments seem to be going around, and all of us are just repeating ourselves in every post, I think. Also, it seems to be getting a tad bit more offensive with every post, so I thnk its best to stop.

If people in India think that Ganguly is the best choice as captain, who can argue otherwise.

 

[scorpio]

Roy: If u read this thread once again you will see that i complimented you a couple of times when u came up with balanced views.

It was only when u started to come with statements like Ganguly is an idiot , Indian
fans are deluded..and arguments which made no sense that led to things getting a little hot.
Also Insinuations like i dont know how to use statsguru are really not the way to go about making frs...right ?

Morever the arguments which i presented were not going round and round...unlike you. I presented the break up..while you have been coming up with the same avg without ever watching the matches or seeing how he performed against different teams...

How abt coming up with a argument abt the facts i presented. Or do u realise that your views were wrong and you never realised that Ganguly as a batsman was no grt shakes even before he was made the captain.

I apologize if i insulted you. But it is my view that you started it and we just gave it back. ( sort of like waugh and ganguly thing isnt it ? )

[Edited on 8/4/02 by scorpio]

 

[luckyeddie]

Seconds out, Test 2.

Looking forward to watching the whole game at Trent Bridge

 

[royGilchrist]

Yeah, I admit I came across as a bit cndescending. My mistake, and my apologies.

The reason was that its sometimes very frustrating to hear people say stuff which I think is totally wrong, but still my fault that I offended.

I would have liked to end the argument, but you brought up Ganguly. My point was simple, his performance degraded after becoming captain.

Your point about him being not a great test batsman even before becoming the captain. If a batsman scores in favorable conditions, but scores at 46, he still cannot be called bad. Miandad was also similar, although his average was better, in the 50s, but still he had a hard time batting in seaming conditions like england, aus. And besides, most batsmen play better at home grounds and against inferior bowling attacks. Dravid is a bit of an exception but his NZ record is not against a high quality attack, he was an absolute failure in Aus.

Anyways, I had finished the arguments but you brought up Ganguly's record 0nce again and the above is just o reply to that.

 

[scorpio]

Hmm..looks like u form ur arguments based on ur perceptions. May be Ganguly's captaincy is hurting you more than you agree..

You posted..

I would have liked to end the argument, but you brought up Ganguly. My point was simple, his performance degraded after becoming captain.

Your point about him being not a great test batsman even before becoming the captain. If a batsman scores in favorable conditions, but scores at 46, he still cannot be called bad. Miandad was also similar, although his average was better, in the 50s, but still he had a hard time batting in seaming conditions like england, aus. And besides, most batsmen play better at home grounds and against inferior bowling attacks. Dravid is a bit of an exception but his NZ record is not against a high quality attack, he was an absolute failure in Aus.

Well..if u read what i posted before once again..it might be a little more clear to you. Here it is once again for your benefit.

South Africa in India, 1996/97 - avg 21.5
India in West Indies, 1996/97 - 19.5
Border-Gavaskar Trophy (Aus/Ind) in India, 1997/98 - 32.2
Border-Gavaskar Trophy (Aus/Ind) in Australia, 1999/00 - 29.5
South Africa in India, 1999/00 - 11.75

These are his avg in various series before he became captain. How did he get his avg to 46 then ? Here take this..

India in England, 1996 - 105.0
Border-Gavaskar Trophy (Aus/Ind) in India, 1996/97 - 87.0
India in Sri Lanka, 1997/98 - 64
Sri Lanka in India, 1997/98 - 98
India in Zimbabwe, 1998/99 - 41
New Zealand in India, 1999/00 - 125

See the disparity ? Captaincy just hastened the process of weaknesses being found out. And moreoever in ganguly's case it had to do a lot with th fact tht he lost confidence and some poor shot selection. When he came to terms with his weaknesses he did well in WI.Hope to sticks to the same strategy against england..


As for Miandad...he averaged 46 Vs eng in eng. Which is less than his career avg...but still pretty damn good.

He averaged 33 against the windies away..his career record against windies was 29.3

It was only against the aussies that he averaged 38 away against a overall avg of 51.

So looks like it is more of a case of ur perceptions clouding your judgement. Though i have to agree that he was a bit of a flat track bully.

 

[full_length]

lol
kind of reminds me of old times..
"here roy, read the posts again..."
Kind of remember doing that a million times at sports.com.
reading comprehension is a valuable skill to have
and then the follow up of, we are saying the same thing again and again.. so lets stop, when there's nothing you (roy) have to say, and just dont want to make a simple admission that you might be wrong.. that sounds familiar too. So does the condescension..nothing new there.

maybe we should get the hint from things like yeah i admit so-and-so was not special, just like most Indian captains, I've never been an Indian fan, talking of favourable home umpiring in India (lol. look at the series down under, India's trip to SL in '93, tours of SA, the mysterious case of blind third umpires in WI...and take a look at the recent test series in India. So much for that!) etc. ..

Scorpio, i think that statement of not being any great shakes with the bat ever, is not quite right either. He did have bad tours of WI (where everyone but Sachin looked scratchy and the only other batsman to give some impression of being in control was Dravid i think), and SA. He just didnt get to play enough away tours in good form for people to say he cant handle away tours. In the not so distant past, he has been struggling everywere.. home and away.. Remember his earlier tour of England, and the recent one of WI (where he was not in form coming in, and improved rapidly over the series). He also has a century in NZ (which unfortunately, I dont really rememeber- Dravid's innings there are what stay in mind. he was in sublime form. ). Whats the explanation for those good tours then? I think he is an exceptional batsman. He's been lucky to keep his place when in poor form (or unlucky? he could have batted himself back to form in domestic cricket like VVS did.). But then he's paid for that with the tremendous amount of stress that goes with captaining India. Waugh is seen with so much respect, and his statements attacking Ganguly provoked what was probably the most concentrated witch hunt of a cricketer I've seen the media get into. Damn! Hansie didnt get bashed in that fashion for what he did! And we are talking about one of the most best captains in world cricket currently. I would say he deserves every bit of luck that comes his way given this kind of pressure, and the kind of results he's delivered. The only problem I have with Ganguly's captaincy is his sidelining (?) of Murali Karthik (ramesh should be another topic..).

I dont think Dravid is a sissy! He'd probably make a good captain, but Ganguly has shown himself to be a good leader of men, and an aggressive, captain. Another side of him really came to the fore with his reactions after the Natwest victory. I've NEVER seen such celeberations from the Indian team. the only comparable occasion was Sharjah when everyone piled on top of Sachin's car He's got this team together, and helped some talented newcomers along. Most importantly he gave Waugh a bloody nose No reason to dump him. The other options, Sachin and VVS cant be considered because the one doesnt want to be captain, and the other is not a surety (yes, not even now). Same goes for Kumble. I'm happy with ganguly's captaincy, but he's gotta make some runs in england.

 

[royGilchrist]

Hmm... I am being tormented from all corners by Indian fans ...I would be very interested to hear the take of non-Indian fans on all this.

One thing that I must say here, I would call you ignorant for not appreciating the intellect of Ian Chappell. And I am pretty confident in calling him totally unbiased. He does come across as a little hard edged at times, but thats because he says it the way he sees it, a staight shooter if you will. Although even he is becoming a little bit diplomatic in his statements. When he was a player he obviously tried his hard to make Aus win, but now he is a TV expert and very neutral.

BTW, FL nice to c u around, looks like you still havent been exposed to the magic of 'paragraphs' in the english language

 

[Top_Cat]

One thing that I must say here, I would call you ignorant for not appreciating the intellect of Ian Chappell. And I am pretty confident in calling him totally unbiased. He does come across as a little hard edged at times, but thats because he says it the way he sees it, a staight shooter if you will. Although even he is becoming a little bit diplomatic in his statements. When he was a player he obviously tried his hard to make Aus win, but now he is a TV expert and very neutral.

A lot of times whilst listening to Ian Chappel, I've thought "WTF?" but this is indeed true. As a tactician he's very savvy and if there's one thing he's got, it's that he ALWAYS supports the players and hates legislation which takes away from the game. The over-the-shoulder no-ball rule and others are real pet hates for him. He has a pretty strong distrust for authority too.

But when it comes to describing players or strategies, he's usually right ont he mark. I'm sure he just has a personal thing against Ganguly and guys like him.

Waugh is seen with so much respect, and his statements attacking Ganguly provoked what was probably the most concentrated witch hunt of a cricketer I've seen the media get into. Damn! Hansie didnt get bashed in that fashion for what he did!

Errrr, well I didn't hear about this. I remember Steve's comments about Ganguly's method of captaincy (and especially when he gave the Aussie section in the crowd in India the one-finger saulte - poor show for an international captain) but that was it. Everything else sort-of died after Australia lost that series in India. So I have no idea what you're talking about in terms of a 'witch-hunt'.

I would say that the biggest witch-hunt victim throughout his whole career (not just a small part of it) has been Warnie. Warnie is an idiot in many ways but geez, why is the fact he smokes actually news? His phone-*** thing is totally his and his wife's business and him abusing that kid in NZ was blown right out of proportion (regardless of whether he did it or not). As I said, he's stupid for getting himself into these situations but geez, most of the stuff he's been busted for has been barely newsworthy yet it's been front-page news.

I'd say that Ganguly has had a relatively light introduction to media pressure.

Mind you, I reckon his 'gamesmanship' is nothing to get in a knot about. He's just a bit brash, that's all. So what? I'd wager that EVERY captain and player playing on the international stage is the same.

I mean, geez, when I played for SA even at U/19 level, it was pretty bad but the way I looked at sledging is this; when the bower is about to start his run-up, the fielders have to shut up or they'll be warned so until that point where the bowler is about to bowl the ball, they can say what they want to, I just ignored it. If they said anything while the bowler was running in, I'd just back away and tell the umpire. Sledging never got to me. I used to just laugh at it and it never got to me.

So yeah I have no problem with Ganguly at all (except the aforementioned incident) but indeed, he needs to improve his peformance as a captain. He should be in the team as a batsman first and captain second.

As for Steve Waugh's failings a captain, I think he plays favourites too much with certain players. And I don't agree that he's is actually THAT good a tactician. I think he benefits enormously from the other brains in the side in the form of Warnie and Adam Gilchrist, as well as Mark Waugh. I still have to wonder about some of the field settings off his. It's part of the reason guys like Warnie hasn't been that successful of late. He hasnt bowled exceptionally but the fields have been set by someone with a fast-bowler in mind, not a leg-spinner.

For mine, Warnie should have been captain instead of Waugh after Mark Taylor retired. Now HE'S a brilliant tactician in my opinion but his off-field record is less than sterling. Several instances where he's taken over the captaincy for a few overs in one-sided contests (where Australia we're just about to lose heavily), the fields he set almost made it seem as if the Aussies were the ones with the upper-hand. Waugh would come back on the and the game would continue as it was. So Warnie would be my next choice for Test captain. If not, I bet it won't be long before he retires.

 

[aussie_beater]

.....One thing that I must say here, I would call you ignorant for not appreciating the intellect of Ian Chappell.

I appreciate Ian Chappel's comments on pure cricketing affairs, but he goes beyond that all the time which becomes totally annoying.And that ain't intellect but pure bigoted attitude.He carries the mantle of doing the rounds off the field what the Aussie players do on the field.And that clouds all his credentials of being a balanced commentator.

 

[Radical]

[No message]

 

[Radical]

hehe sorry for the earlier one.
Well in my opinion Sourav Ganguly may not be the best in the world when it comes to captaincy (moreso in coming through to ur boyz) BUT he would be my pick of the rest.
The one thing which is darn important, more important than the numbers a captain will eventually compile, is the Attitude on the field. Ganguly has that.(its man managemnt where he lacks) But his performances offlate have been dissappointing to say the least. In his case Performing badly is not an option.

 

[royGilchrist]

[No message]

 

[royGilchrist]

The over-the-shoulder no-ball rule and others are real pet hates for him.

Yeah, I once heard him in a TV interview say that he has a few ideas about improving test cricket, I think he said 'a few rough edges to be smothened'. I'd love to hear what he has to say.

He obviously very opinionated, and one thing he strongly feels about is that batsmen should not walk if the umpire gives them not out but they know they are out. I dont necessarily agree with it completely but I think he has a point there. It makes things very complicated, especially for the umpire if the batsman walks.

His observation is very keen generally, his criticism of the slow Indian bowling rate was spot on. Also, I think he brought up an interesting point about Inzi's running. In his opinion, Inzi was reasonably fast between wickets but his problem was turning for the second run, in which he took a lot of time. Once Pak/Aus were playing a ODI, and dean jones hit the ball towards deep fine leg where Wasim Akram picked up and threw the ball. dean jones tested Akram with a second run and with a direct, flat throw Wasim Jones was out. There was jubilation between the Pak players but he showed the replay once again and showed that Saleem Yousuf (the Pak keeper) was standing well behind the wickets and basically seing the actionas a bystander! What would have happened if the ball did not hit the stumps, Jones would have been easily home. Kinda showed the poor basic technique of saleem Yousuf. he also found the batting order of the Indian team in Aus almost humorous, when I think in the third test (or second) after repeated failures of the top order they sent in the keeper Prasad to open!! Poor guy facing McGrath in Aus with a new ball and very aggressive field.

As for Steve Waugh's failings a captain, I think he plays favourites too much with certain players

I think a more accurate way to describe this would be, that S Waugh gives his players ample chance i.e. M Waugh, Hayden. Or rather he has the luxury of giving guys a lot chances because they win all the time and there is no pressure from anyone. But i guess favoritism might also be there, as Blewitt whom I thought was excellent in the Pak series, didnt get much chance. Waugh, when he first became the captain said something about not agreeing with M Taylor's aggressive declartions in third innings sometimes, and I was a bit disappointed thinking that Aus have got a defensive and boring captain now. But that ha hardly been the case. Especially in the second test in Inda, the way the Aussies and Waugh himself went for a victory was almost foolish, and too aggressive.

Full Length:"when there's nothing you (roy) have to say, and just dont want to make a simple admission that you might be wrong"

I can go on arguing if you guys want to continue. Also, there i have been convinced by some of the things scorpio said, and I absolutely disagree with the rest. But its still an interesting discussion with him. with you at sports.com, it was a different story. You had just mindless drivel to offer and thats it, and that too with one long paragraph. And FYI, I was the 3rd or 4th person to have been fed up of your stupidity. Legglancer was one and I dont remember the others.

 

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But i guess favoritism might also be there, as Blewitt whom I thought was excellent in the Pak series, didnt get much chance.

Blewwy was so mucked around by the Aussie selectors when he was finally asked to open the batting. He was told that because Mike Slater was the 'aggressive one' that he'd have restrit himself, which is stupid. A naturally attacking player like Blewwy should NEVER be told something like that. He may as well have been told he couldn't hit too many pull-shots anymore.

Blewwy is just one example of someone buggerised around by the Aussie selectors. Langer was another for a while.

But yeah there is a LOT of favouritism in the the Aussie side and it's usually in the favour of NSW players.

How can anyone explain the selection of Nathan Bracken in the Aussie one-day side when another left-armer, Mathew Inness, took 7 wickets in an innings for Victoria against the West Indians and another bag of 7 and a bag of 6 in the same season??? Nathan Bracken had taken a bag of 4 as his best a that stage. Inness was bowling beautifully yet was never mentioned.

How about the selection of Brett Lee? As soon as Waugh said he wanted him in the side, in the side he went, despite the fact that Andy Bichel was bowling SUPERBLY for Queensland at the time and has been for a few seasons now.

And the treatement of Damien Fleming has been disgraceful! He was Australia's best bowler in Australia for the home series against England, Pakistan and India yet now he barely gets a look in.