NZ's bowling without Bond

[anzac]

I still hope to see Cairns' international career reignited - so many NZ seamers have lost their careers to injury recently, I hope Cairns isn't another.
Tuffey, and Oram to a slightly lesser extent, are good bowlers in typical New Zealand conditions, as demonstrated by their domestic FC and home Test records. However, if they want to have success overseas, particularly in the subcontinent, they will both need to work on off-cutters, leg-cutters and reverse-swing. Seems to me both of them are just about accurate enough as they are now - if they want to try to be more aggressive they'll need to develop alternative methods of moving the ball. Bond likewise.
It's amazing how similar these three bowlers are. Bond's a rather better one-day bowler IMO than Tuffey or Oram, but all of them are bowlers who are going to be a huge threat in typical Kiwi conditions due to their seam, accuracy and bounce, but as yet none of them are going to present much of a danger overseas. That does not mean they couldn't, though, with a bit of practice on new techniques.

too true - recent history would indicate that many NZ seamers benefit from tours to the sub-continent, particularly to Pakistan. They come back with a few more tricks in their bag such as reverse swing, slow balls etc. From memory the likes of Allott, Morrison, Nash, Doull & Cairns all developed their repetoires after such tours.

At this stage from what I've seen in India I'd say that Styris has a bigger variety of deliveries than Tuffey or Oram. From memory I think Bond already uses a variety such as off cutters & he does get late in & reverse swing - he just needs to stay fit (and I don't think his body likes the heat as he also had problems in Australia).

I doubt we'll see Cairns play test cricket again unless it is in NZ, or perhaps a final hurrah in OZ or England. Injuries have taken their toll since SA, and I'm not sure he's got the motivation any more with his recent interests (family & business) at his age to put his body thru so much.

Hopefully he can regain some fitness & form to contribute in a few more ODI series (starting with the upcoming Tri series), as I think it was a great shame for the WC (let alone NZ) that he was unable to 'fire' with bat or ball in what may be his last WC. In the ODI side NZ can get away with playing him as a 'specialist' batsman as they have so many bowling options.

It gets a bit more complicated when it comes to the Test side, although one opton could be to play him as a bat & maybe a 4th seam option & promote Styris to the 3rd seam spot. I'm not sure that Styris wants to do too much bowling, and the only seamer you would drop would be Oram if Bond were fit.

Oram would appear to be the logical successor as the 'allrounder'. Cairns used to be around the mid to high 130 kph mark, but more recently has dropped to around the high 120s - low 130s. Oram has height to get bounce, and in domestic cricket can be as devastating as anyone with the bat.

In one of those recent Max type international matches he smashed a ton off something like 34 deliveries, and he scored a ton in one of the warm up games on this tour, so he can bat but has been unable to produce at international level to date - maybe he is feeling the pressure of trying to fill Cairns' shoes????

Maybe he needs to be swapped in the order with Vettori for a while and told to play his more natural game & just to belt the crap out of the ball for a while to get some confidence back.

 

[Richard]

Well, Vettori seems to have discovered how to bat again this series...

 

[iamdavid]

Well, Vettori seems to have discovered how to bat again this series...

Well if Gilchrist was lucky in India in 2001 (as you say he was) then what was Vettori yesterday , I lost count of the number of edges which JUST missed the stumps & skied shots which fell JUST short of feildsmen.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Well if Gilchrist was lucky in India in 2001 (as you say he was) then what was Vettori yesterday , I lost count of the number of edges which JUST missed the stumps & skied shots which fell JUST short of feildsmen.

This has to be a 'by-the-way' comment because it certainly bears no relevance to Richard's point.

 

[iamdavid]

This has to be a 'by-the-way' comment because it certainly bears no relevance to Richard's point.

No , Richard was just saying that Vettori seems to have rediscovered how to bat & I said no his batting was as ordinary as usual , he was just very lucky!:rolleyes:

 

[Andre]

Back to thread. Tuffey has been very impressive today.

 

[Mr. P]

Why don't we start a thread named "Australia bowling without Lee, Gillespie, Warne, McGrath, MacGill and Lehmann"

 

[Craig]

He picked up 7 wickets. If Butler can not fall away when he bowls, he can be so much better. His action allows him to bowl much quicker then 135kms per hour. He should be in the mid 140s with pace.

 

[Richard]

Well if Gilchrist was lucky in India in 2001 (as you say he was) then what was Vettori yesterday , I lost count of the number of edges which JUST missed the stumps & skied shots which fell JUST short of feildsmen.

Forgive me, I haven't the facility to watch this particular tour.
However, ONE dropped catch is far more lucky than fifty airial shots that just miss fielders or fifty chops past the stumps.
On each occasion, the batsman has done well enough to not get himself out.
With a dropped catch, missed lbw or missed stumping the batsman has encountered something (not neccesarily always his fault) that would, under normal circumstances, result in his dismissal.
You see what I mean?
Of course, if Vettori was dropped on 0 he's the luckiest bugger around ATM.

 

[Richard]

Back to thread. Tuffey has been very impressive today.

His figures of this match have been very impressive.
The question is, was it him or poor batting? At least 3 of the wickets were tail-enders.

 

[Tim]

err & at least 3 other names he dismissed in the 2nd innings were Sehwag, Dravid & Tendulkar.

Plus he made that fantastic run-out, I don't see many other opening bowlers in World Cricket making that kind of effort.

 

[thierry henry]

Yeah, and in response to the original post in this thread, Tuffey must be a pretty good club player to dismiss Tendulkar, Sehwag and Dravid as many times as he has over the last year:rolleyes:

He's now taken about 55 test wickets at an average of about 28, and I think his ODI record is at least as good, so he's doing ok. He's not just accurate, he can swing the new ball and his action is perfectly suited for bowling leg cutters with the oldest of balls.

 

[Tim]

Craig didn't you see Butler reach 148 km's on day 3? Unfortunately the heat got the better of him & he's already been ruled out of the 1st 2 ODI's with a side-strain.

If NZ keep batting well & can get Bond & Butler ready for the home series...all the tests matches should be a sell-out everyday which is great news for NZ cricket.

The South African series is shaping up very nicely with 3 tests & 5 ODI's.

 

[Tim]

Tuffey must be one of the first pace bowlers in awhile (?) to go to India and actually lower his bowling average..he started off at 29 before the series and dropped to 27.

 

[marc71178]

Tuffey must be one of the first pace bowlers in awhile (?) to go to India and actually lower his bowling average..he started off at 29 before the series and dropped to 27.

It happened 2 years ago Tim.

Flintoff reduced his from 55 to 44.15!

 

[Richard]

err & at least 3 other names he dismissed in the 2nd innings were Sehwag, Dravid & Tendulkar.

Plus he made that fantastic run-out, I don't see many other opening bowlers in World Cricket making that kind of effort.

I know that, but were the balls that got those 3 good ones?
I have not had the facility to watch any of this tour, so I can only rely on others to feed me information.

 

[Tim]

All Tuffeys wickets were good, it was classic line & length bowling on a pitch with little to cheer about for the pace bowlers.

He drew Sehwag & Dravid into playing outside offstump & then bowled Tendulkar through the gate with a delivery that came back in.

The 3 wickets he took of the tail-enders were fairly straight-forward catches to the keeper.

 

[Richard]

All Tuffeys wickets were good, it was classic line & length bowling on a pitch with little to cheer about for the pace bowlers.

He drew Sehwag & Dravid into playing outside offstump & then bowled Tendulkar through the gate with a delivery that came back in.

The 3 wickets he took of the tail-enders were fairly straight-forward catches to the keeper.

"Drew" Dravid into a stroke? With Sehwag fair enough, but you cannot credit a bowler for an unneccesary stroke from Dravid - it was just a rare error from someone who doesn't often make errors.

 

[Tim]

Actually if you had seen the match, Dravid did the same thing in the first innings to Butler.

 

[marc71178]

I know that, but were the balls that got those 3 good ones?

Does it matter - at the end of the day a wicket is a wicket, and if a bad ball gets a wicket after a string of great balls, by your definition he doesn't deserve the wicket.