most talented young player!

[V Reddy]

Atlast a Ramps supporter on this forum to join me . I was feeling lonely :saint:

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I have to agree with most points marc71178 brings up. Although i think Ramps should have being given another chance as he was probably batting his best form for england at the time he got dropped (ok even that wasnt awe inspiring but it was better than most other english batsmen at the time).

Jones should be brought in for Read ASAP imo. Yes he lacks the skills with the gloves that Read has but Read atm is nothing more than a batting tail ender like Giles / Batty. Where as Jones has the 'potential' to average over 30 at test cricket...but we'll never find that out unless he's given a chance.

I also think its about time England just go out on a limb and put a young batsmen into the team...say Ian Bell.
Yes his form hasnt being the best in county cricket but if you look at Vaughans CC record you wonder how he even got in the england team but now he's considered our only world class batsmen. We have to bring in fresh YOUNG talent even if it weakens the team slightly in the short term. By the looks of it Pieterson is being groomed as the main contender to fill the void that Hussain / Thorpe will undoubably leave sooner rather than later. But if he has a bad 2004 season that might backfire for England.

Does anyone know how well the Acadamy team is doing? there seems to be a lack of reports on them so far...what time of the year are they touring the Sub-cont? it would be nice to see what sort of scores / figures they were getting, or even some form guides from Marsh et al on how they were doing....Doubt it though :rolleyes:

 

[raju]

I also like to know of the progress of the academy...especially Worcs. spinner Shaftab Khalid.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I also like to know of the progress of the academy...especially Worcs. spinner Shaftab Khalid.

Very much so, just as long as in them trying to sort his accuracy out they havent reduced his ability to turn the ball big like he's done in the past

 

[Neil Pickup]

The Academy boys are still in training at Loughborough University at present, and their tour is in February, I think

 

[Neil Pickup]

Where were you at before you came to the Uni?
And are you planning to coach at the club next season?

Caistor Town CC in Lincolnshire
And yep, I've already been in contact with Pat Steward WRT Indoor Nets over the winter and into 2004.
Might play if you're short too :P

 

[Rivergod]

Saw Patel bat yesterday (and day before) with Sachin and have to say, he has a bright future. He has that knack that a lot of wicketkeepers (eg Parore, Healy) have of been extremely frustrating to get out. You think you're into the tail and here comes mr knock-it-around-and-pick-up-the-ones-and-twos before consolidating and making a big score.

He's also improved heaps with his wicketkeeping throughout the current series against Australia. As Ian Healy said in commentary yesterday: "he wasn't this good at 18!".

 

[iamdavid]

There's a 21 year old left handed opening batsman , playing grade cricket in Sydney , named Eddie Cowan , he's leading the run scorers list this year & Andre informs me he is very highly rated in Sydney grade circles.

I know Greg Matthews rates him very highly , he went as far as to say "Eddie's gonna make 5000 test runs" :O

This just happens not to be the first time Matthews has talked up a youngster in this fashion , in the late 70's / early 80's Matthews spotted a teenaged allrounder from Bankstown & said that he would acheive great things at the highest level , Steve Waugh didnt dissapoint.

 

[Craig]

He also said Mark Higgs would take over 150 test wickets and over 5000 runs.

 

[Richard]

There's a 21 year old left handed opening batsman , playing grade cricket in Sydney , named Eddie Cowan , he's leading the run scorers list this year & Andre informs me he is very highly rated in Sydney grade circles.

I know Greg Matthews rates him very highly , he went as far as to say "Eddie's gonna make 5000 test runs" :O

This just happens not to be the first time Matthews has talked up a youngster in this fashion , in the late 70's / early 80's Matthews spotted a teenaged allrounder from Bankstown & said that he would acheive great things at the highest level , Steve Waugh didnt dissapoint.

Ed Cowan's First-Class record is very impressive.
But he has only played against second-string counties.
Assuming it's the same one.

 

[Richard]

Caistor Town CC in Lincolnshire
And yep, I've already been in contact with Pat Steward WRT Indoor Nets over the winter and into 2004.
Might play if you're short too :P

Depending on who "you" is, I'd either say "won't" or "will beyond question".
It'll always take a bit of time to get into the Firsts (if you're good enough - and I'll wait and see, rather than judging on your rather damning self-assesment. Generally people are better than they think they are. With the exception of myself, obviously) but Jeff has so many teams and so many players he never has the same team for 2 games in a row. If you want a game for him, for starters at least, you'll get one.
Whether you can work your way up through Ports (Matt Porter, Seconds captain) and Pat your performances only will tell.

 

[Richard]

Until they continue to bat in those positions and continue to perform better that is...

Which certainly is not happining at present. Vaughan has made 2 centuries and a 50 against proper Test nations in the last 3 series, and like it or not the series against Bangladesh isn't worth considering. Butcher has averaged 38 opening since his recall.

So what does that tell you then?

The fact that he failed for most of the time opening and all the time at three and six tells me that he only hinted at his potential in those days.
The fact that he averages 38 opening since his recall, and 44 at three, tells me that he is a different player now to when he played previously.
These facts combined, plus the fact that he has been an opener all his life, convince me that there is no difference between him if he opens or bats three.

Which you seem happy to do when it suits, but not for others to do if it makes your theories look bunkum.

Like who?

You do?

The facts are Smith is weak outside off - yet you overlook that.
The facts are that lots of players have very very good career records - you overlook them.
The fact is Ramprakash was a failure for England - you overlook that.
The fact is Vaughan and Butcher are far more successful opening and batting at 3 - you overlook that.

I have very recently disproved the value of that lattermost fact to the best of my ability.
I overlook the fact that Ramprakash was a total failure in his Test career up to 1997 due to the fact that the subsequent time was much better, except when he batted in a position that does not become him. A bit like you do with Vaughan and ODIs.
I don't overlook the fact that players have good career records - I just devalue them, for varying reasons.
I also don't overlook the fact that Smith is weak outside off, and his failures in this series are starting to worry me. I certainly believe he has it in him to correct these faults. But I also think the runs he has scored shouldn't be totally overlooked just because of a technical flaw. Technical flaws only matter when they keep getting you out cheaply. By Smith's standards, this has been happening a lot recently.

 

[Richard]

Jones bats at 7 for Kent - how on earth can you justify selecting someone who bats that low down as a specialist batsman?

Because he averaged all but 60 for two thirds of a season.

You almost had a point there, but again you brought in a failure (unless charging down the wicket and getting stupidly stumped when you team is trying to save a match is proving he can do what's required in Test Cricket - I don't remember Collingwood doing that when he was asked to save matches)

Now that really is ridiculous. England were trying to save the Test at Trent Bridge? They were 100 ahead with 3 days remaining. To salvage a draw from a potential victory would be incredibly difficult.
Ramprakash proved he had what it takes for Test-cricket when he averaged 37 since 1998 when batting in his proper position.

But yet again neglect to name them...

I'll name a few of them: Smith, Strauss, Key, Fulton (I never said young or fairly young), Wagh, Bell, Troughton, Solanki. This is by no means a definitive list, but I'm sure you'll recognise it. There was no real need to print it again, as I assumed you would remember. Sadly you felt the need to try to find something wrong where there was nothing to attempt to devalue other arguments.

 

[marc71178]

Because he averaged all but 60 for two thirds of a season.

And then all but nothing for a third of the season.

I'll name a few of them: Smith, Strauss, Key, Fulton, Wagh, Bell, Troughton, Solanki.

As a Warwickshire fan I immediately remove 3 of that list, and 3 others are openers, so that leaves Solanki.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Depending on who "you" is, I'd either say "won't" or "will beyond question".
It'll always take a bit of time to get into the Firsts (if you're good enough - and I'll wait and see, rather than judging on your rather damning self-assesment. Generally people are better than they think they are. With the exception of myself, obviously) but Jeff has so many teams and so many players he never has the same team for 2 games in a row. If you want a game for him, for starters at least, you'll get one.
Whether you can work your way up through Ports (Matt Porter, Seconds captain) and Pat your performances only will tell.

I'll be happy to play a couple for the Sunday/Midweek/4th XIs.. I really am that limited!

 

[raju]

"As a Warwickshire fan I immediately remove 3 of that list, and 3 others are openers, so that leaves Solanki"

And as a Worcs. member for God knows how long I'll tell you that Solanki shouldn't be within a country mile of the test side. Talented shotmaker but doesn't have the mental game to excel consistently at CC level, let alone test standard.

 

[raju]

Ramprakash proved he had what it takes for Test-cricket when he averaged 37 since 1998 when batting in his proper position.

Why do you choose 1998? Why not 1995, 1999, or 2000?
Only because it suits your spurious train of thought.
And even after adjusting the figures to suit yourself he averages a mediocre 37.

And what is his proper position? Surely he spent the vast majority of his career batting at 3 for Middlesex. He averages 10 batting at number 3 in test cricket and 24 batting at 4 (his NORMAL position now in county cricket).
At 5 & 6 his average improves to 35 and 32 respectively. But 5 & 6 ain't his normal position but you still include those scores in his stats when it suits you.

BOTTOM LINE: 92 test innings, 12 50s, 2 100s.

 

[raju]

Caistor Town CC in Lincolnshire

Don't your mob tour the Vale Of Evesham every summer? I'm sure they stay at my mate's drinker for about a week every August.
I remember playing against a Caistor touring team a few years ago when I played for the Evesham club.

 

[Craig]

Why do you choose 1998? Why not 1995, 1999, or 2000?
Only because it suits your spurious train of thought.
And even after adjusting the figures to suit yourself he averages a mediocre 37.

And what is his proper position? Surely he spent the vast majority of his career batting at 3 for Middlesex. He averages 10 batting at number 3 in test cricket and 24 batting at 4 (his NORMAL position now in county cricket).
At 5 & 6 his average improves to 35 and 32 respectively. But 5 & 6 ain't his normal position but you still include those scores in his stats when it suits you.

BOTTOM LINE: 92 test innings, 12 50s, 2 100s.

You a member of the Richard bashing club?

 

[iamdavid]

You a member of the Richard bashing club?

Now with over 15 members worldwide.

Chaired by Paul Gilham , Marc Robbins & Neil Pickup.