most talented young player!

[SpaceMonkey]

Michael Vaughan did that vs Australia i think, ducked but left his bat up like a periscope and he literally middled the ball and it FLEW through the slips for 4...classic stroke

 

[Richard]

Perhaps it's because he far better at number 3?

And yet he continually proves that wrong by going out and scoring runs as an opener, yet he ignores that himself!:wow:

Except to look at his ODI record which doesn't suggest he possesses the temprament for Test Cricket.

And even regarding temperament, ODI and Test cricket are different games and success or failure in one shouldn't denote any judgement on the other.

 

[Richard]

Our Under 15s

Where were you at before you came to the Uni?
And are you planning to coach at the club next season?

 

[marc71178]

And yet he continually proves that wrong by going out and scoring runs as an opener, yet he ignores that himself!:wow:

Continually scoring far fewer runs than when he bats at 3...

And even regarding temperament, ODI and Test cricket are different games and success or failure in one shouldn't denote any judgement on the other.

You reckon?

How come Collingwood was tipped to have the temprement to be a quality Test Batsman after his ODI performances?

 

[Tom Halsey]

When Brett Lee was playing Under 15's he was bowling to the Australian team as a net bowler , Allan Border said he first saw Brett in 1993/94 & even at 15 he was that quick it was scary.

Yes, he would average about 85 m.p.h., I would think. But it doesn't matter, he chucks. :P

 

[Neil Pickup]

Are you a flighted bowler, or a flat Kumble bowler? I am pretty flighted, and people always tell me I bowl like Warne (my action)

I mix it up a bit, mainly by design, but often by accident

 

[age_master]

but often by accident

the wicket balls.

 

[Craig]

You reckon?

How come Collingwood was tipped to have the temprement to be a quality Test Batsman after his ODI performances?

And who were those? Ian Botham?

You cant compare ODI and Test cricket so I dont write much into that comment by that person.

 

[Tim]

I think its stupid to name players who haven't even played test cricket let alone ODI cricket yet...from the players I've seen, Yasir Hameed looks really good.

 

[marc71178]

It wasn't just one person though Craig, there were a fair few forum members expressing similar views.

 

[Richard]

How come Collingwood was tipped to have the temprement to be a quality Test Batsman after his ODI performances?

Because some people don't realise this.
So far we have no evidence whatsoever that Collingwood is a Test-class player. The only thing that suggests he might be is the fact that he had a good First-Class average in 2001 and 2002.
There are still plenty of players I'd prefer see in the side ahead of him presently.

 

[Richard]

Continually scoring far fewer runs than when he bats at 3...

Since 2001 he has averaged 38 opening in Test-cricket, 44 at three.
Still better at three, but the innings ratio is 9 to 51.
He also averaged well in 1998 when opening, and has averaged well (40+) almost non-stop for Surrey when opening.

 

[marc71178]

So far we have no evidence whatsoever that Collingwood is a Test-class player.

But we do have evidence that he performed extremely well on both his first 2 games in very difficult conditions.

There are still plenty of players I'd prefer see in the side ahead of him presently.

Yet again no names, why am I not surprised?

I bet you'll nbow list Ramprakash, Jones, Lehmann, etc.

 

[marc71178]

Since 2001 he has averaged 38 opening in Test-cricket, 44 at three.
Still better at three, but the innings ratio is 9 to 51.
He also averaged well in 1998 when opening, and has averaged well (40+) almost non-stop for Surrey when opening.

That's a new one, let's snip out a lot of his career when he didn't do so well when opening in order to try and justify your case - never seen you do that with Butcher before.

Over their careers there is a difference in total of 27 less runs per innings batting the way you think they should bat compared with the way they currently do.

Over a match that equates to 54 runs, quite a lot to give up that.

 

[Gaijin-san]

And I reckon Beau Casson is the best spin bowling talent in the land.

DAMN FREAKIN` RIGHT!!

 

[Richard]

That's a new one, let's snip out a lot of his career when he didn't do so well when opening in order to try and justify your case - never seen you do that with Butcher before.

Over their careers there is a difference in total of 27 less runs per innings batting the way you think they should bat compared with the way they currently do.

Over a match that equates to 54 runs, quite a lot to give up that.

Keep quoting that stat all you like, it won't increase it's value.
Anyone with any sense can see that Butcher is a different player in the 2001-2004 period than he was in most of the 1997-early-2000 period.
In that period he was primarily opening. In 1998 he did well, opening. In 1997 and 1999 (and 2 games in 2000) he failed opening, batting at three and occasionally at six.
Let's not snip out any parts of any career - let's remember which parts were different from which others.
And yet again you're mixing yourself up - I don't try and justify my case with the facts, I base my case on the facts.

 

[Richard]

But we do have evidence that he performed extremely well on both his first 2 games in very difficult conditions.

Yet again no names, why am I not surprised?
I bet you'll nbow list Ramprakash, Jones, Lehmann, etc.

I'd much prefer see all three of those, yes. Sadly one isn't available.
Collingwood's performances were good according to the situation. We have no evidence that he can do what you normally need to do in Test-cricket.
Hence I would prefer to see Butcher, Hussain, Thorpe and Crawley in ahead of him, all of whom have proven they can. Ramprakash too has.
I also think there are better players who haven't yet had the opportunity to try.

 

[Sudeep]

Since Pakistanis have been the only brave ones to actually put the youngsters to test... I will choose from them only... I haven't really seen much cricket lately apart from the international scene.. SO...

Yasser Hamid
Taufiq Umar
Imran Farhat
Danish Kaneria

All the four look very very good.

Apart from them.. well the very little I saw of Michael Clarke impressed me.

Jacques Rudolph... well I haven't seen much of him... but the prospect of a good future is there..

 

[marc71178]

Keep quoting that stat all you like, it won't increase it's value.

Until they continue to bat in those positions and continue to perform better that is...

Anyone with any sense can see that Butcher is a different player in the 2001-2004 period than he was in most of the 1997-early-2000 period. In that period he was primarily opening.

So what does that tell you then?

Let's not snip out any parts of any career - let's remember which parts were different from which others.

Which you seem happy to do when it suits, but not for others to do if it makes your theories look bunkum.

And yet again you're mixing yourself up - I don't try and justify my case with the facts, I base my case on the facts.

You do?

The facts are Smith is weak outside off - yet you overlook that.
The facts are that lots of players have very very good career records - you overlook them.
The fact is Ramprakash was a failure for England - you overlook that.
The fact is Vaughan and Butcher are far more successful opening and batting at 3 - you overlook that.

Anyone else see any I've missed out?

 

[marc71178]

I'd much prefer see all three of those, yes. Sadly one isn't available.

Jones bats at 7 for Kent - how on earth can you justify selecting someone who bats that low down as a specialist batsman?

Hence I would prefer to see Butcher, Hussain, Thorpe and Crawley in ahead of him, all of whom have proven they can. Ramprakash too has.

You almost had a point there, but again you brought in a failure (unless charging down the wicket and getting stupidly stumped when you team is trying to save a match is proving he can do what's required in Test Cricket - I don't remember Collingwood doing that when he was asked to save matches)

I also think there are better players who haven't yet had the opportunity to try.

But yet again neglect to name them...