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Most Overrated Player?
- Thread starter Andre
- Start date
You intention is clear.marc71178 said:
So yeah I think Bichel who has to play second fiddle to 4 bowlers shows just as much if not more talent than Bond who gets the new ball and fast tracks.
I never realy like to compare any players because the value of a player is to the team and we sometimes dont see the influence a player can have on his team mates. 10 of Bonds 27 games are against Bangers, Zim and non test playing nations and in my books he just hasnt played enough games to rate.
Bond 27 ODI games
Bichel 67 ODI games
Both Bichel and Bond have taken 12 wickets @ 9 runs Against ENGLAND.
SA Bichel 22@31
SA Bond 8@34
WI Bichel 7@48
WI Bond 2@93
tooextracool
International Coach
1) shane bond has never played against englandScallywag said:You intention is clear.
So yeah I think Bichel who has to play second fiddle to 4 bowlers shows just as much if not more talent than Bond who gets the new ball and fast tracks.
I never realy like to compare any players because the value of a player is to the team and we sometimes dont see the influence a player can have on his team mates. 10 of Bonds 27 games are against Bangers, Zim and non test playing nations and in my books he just hasnt played enough games to rate.
Bond 27 ODI games
Bichel 67 ODI games
Both Bichel and Bond have taken 12 wickets @ 9 runs Against ENGLAND.
SA Bichel 22@31
SA Bond 8@34
WI Bichel 7@48
WI Bond 2@93
2)you've missed out his average against australia which is 10.45, as well as india which stands at 21.45 and SL at 22
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
Aus Bond 22 @ 10.45 (6 games)Scallywag said:Bond 27 ODI games
Bichel 67 ODI games
Both Bichel and Bond have taken 12 wickets @ 9 runs Against ENGLAND.
SA Bichel 22@31
SA Bond 8@34
WI Bichel 7@48
WI Bond 2@93
NZ Bichel 8 @ 46.62 (11 games)
And to tie Bichel's tally, Bond needs 25 or 26 wickets in 40 games...
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
Bichel it is thenmarc71178 said:Aus Bond 22 @ 10.45 (6 games)
NZ Bichel 8 @ 46.62 (11 games)
And to tie Bichel's tally, Bond needs 25 or 26 wickets in 40 games...
(oh, sorry. Thought we were comparing him against Harmison)
Langeveldt
Soutie
Adams might be over rated, but at least give him a full nameSJS said:South Africa - Adam
West Indies - Entire bowling line up
England - Everyone except Thorpe
Zimbabwe and Bangladesh - All are over rated by ICC
England - Er.. good one...
West Indies - Edwards, Best.. Hot prospects to be honest.. And they arent rated that much anyway yet...
I would really like to know what you mean PY.PY said:Here we have a fine species of statisticus gratuitous.
Marc71178 only refered to Bond's record against Australia, I expanded that to four teams to include WI, SA and England so as you can see I would think your comment is directed at marc71178, but I know you have directed it at me so I can only assume that you think a record against one country is more representitive than four. Or it could be just a swipe at me which is fine because this is a swipe at you.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
Scallywag said:
Yes, because that is one of reasons he is so highly rated.
For you to compare him with Bichel you need to use all the opponents played, not just 2 that Bichel's done better against and one he's done level against.
And you've only used 2 comparisons, as Bond hasn't even played England (and Bichel doesn't average 9)
tooextracool
International Coach
1) bond has never played against englandScallywag said:I would really like to know what you mean PY.
Marc71178 only refered to Bond's record against Australia, I expanded that to four teams to include WI, SA and England so as you can see I would think your comment is directed at marc71178, but I know you have directed it at me so I can only assume that you think a record against one country is more representitive than four. Or it could be just a swipe at me which is fine because this is a swipe at you.
2)you missed out SL and india too, 2 other teams that bond has good averages against
2) what is with these people...when harmison bowls well against the WI they say lets see him take 41 wickets against australia. when bond does well against the australia they look at his record against the WI?
PY
International Coach
Why thank you very much, I always enjoy people taking a swing for me. I'd like to think that I'm grown up enough not to take a swipe at someone who I don't know, I've never met, I'm never going to meet because to be quite honest, that would be sad. I'd like to think that no-one would because at best, it is bad manners.Scallywag said:
The actual definition of what I said is 'unnecessary statistics'. The one's you quote are 3 more teams indeed, but you have chosen which teams to include and as TEC says Bond's record is a lot better against India and Sri Lanka. I guess it is my way of saying that you use statistics and you have manipulated those stats to heavily favour your own argument.Scallywag said:
You aren't the first and you won't be the last but it still doesn't stop me from being annoyed by it.
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
Had the pleasure of seeing them once again this weekend. Bangladesh (of all sides) scored their highest ever test score and their number nine scored a hundred. He hadnt even scored a fifty till then in his career.Mr Mxyzptlk said:
Edwards and Best, Zilch for 140 PLUS !!
Oh yes they are great bowlers and Edwards is the world's greatest outfield
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
I have seen Edwards in action against SL and he was very good when he started. He followed that up with a good show against Zimbabwe and got a lot of wickets there. His performance against the South Africans- probably the strongest team in home conditions- was awful, but he did a lot better back hoem against the English. Even Best, with a lot of pace and aggression, is a good bowler, and far better than the most experienced West Indian quicks who are picked well past their 'best before' date! That said, the fielders did not help them much, did they?
tooextracool
International Coach
were you saying the same thing about the indian bowlers when b'desh scored 400 on debut against india?SJS said:Had the pleasure of seeing them once again this weekend. Bangladesh (of all sides) scored their highest ever test score and their number nine scored a hundred. He hadnt even scored a fifty till then in his career.
Edwards and Best, Zilch for 140 PLUS !!
Oh yes they are great bowlers and Edwards is the world's greatest outfield
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
Yes. I think For the last five years or more, India has had the lousiest bowling attack of all the major test playing countries in the world. Even today, we may talk a lot about Irfan and Balaji, but we have a pretty modest attack.tooextracool said:
My Indian friends will scream but I think even Kumble is not the great bowler we would like to proclaim him to be. He is very good I agree but if he wants us to score 500 runs every time before he can be effective outside of India, it doesnt speak much of him.
Apologies..Indian friends..but thats what I have always believed.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
He's not great, but he can be very effective when he is used as an attacking bowler and has a spin partner at the other end. He can be competitive. If he is the lone spinner, he's not going to be of any use. Come to think of it, all Indian pace bowlers except Kapil Dev and his medium-pace gang are over-rated.