Most Overrated Player?

[Tim]

Zaheer touched 150 kms!? what are you joking?

The speed ratings at cricinfo say the highest Zaheer has recorded is 143 km's back in 2000 when he first came onto the scene. However in 2002, he did record 145 k's against Zimbabwe.

Now in bowling terms, 143 k's is a long way outside the 150 k zone. So his pace was certainly over-hyped.

 

[marc71178]

145 is about 90mph which I think qualifies as a Fast bowler, but that would be if that were his average ball, and i very much doubt that.

 

[Anil]

Originally posted by Top_Cat
I think putting Lazman and Rampers on equal footing with regards to pure talent is about right. Rampers has the shots but, as has been stated already, his fear of failure means he doesn't bring them out often enough.

Laxman is just stronger in mind, which is the difference in their cases.

You must be joking. Just compare their career stats.

Mark Ramprakash

52 matches 92 innings 6 not outs 2350 runs 154 highest score 27.32 average 2 tons 12 half-tons 12 ducks.

home ave: 24.40 away ave: 31.79

V.V.S Laxman

42 matches 68 innings 7 not outs 2660 runs 281 highest score 43.60 average 4 tons 15 half-tons 4 ducks.

home ave: 45.25 away ave: 42.21

The miserable stats that Ramps has built up in a decade of international cricket is all just a pure waste of talent, is it? ...and all due to a "fear of failure", I guess!

Strength of mind or temperament has never been one of Laxman's strongest suits, obviously it hasn't been Ramps' either, but those kind of poor stats cannot be explained away by just lack of temperament. He has just not been good enough, that's the simple truth.

 

[Top_Cat]

You must be joking. Just compare their career stats.

Yeah, so? The only one which is vastly different is the average. Anyway, I'm not talking about stats; I'm talking about what I saw in them as players and having seen a bit of both of them, I can honestly say that for pure batting talent, they're on par. Both have tight defences and both can play many shots. Rampers hasn't made the most of his (numerous) opportunities but this isn't what's in dispute.

Sorry, but my position remains; they're on par, in my opinion.

 

[Anil]

Originally posted by Top_Cat

You must be joking. Just compare their career stats.

Yeah, so? The only one which is vastly different is the average. Anyway, I'm not talking about stats; I'm talking about what I saw in them as players and having seen a bit of both of them, I can honestly say that for pure batting talent, they're on par. Both have tight defences and both can play many shots. Rampers hasn't made the most of his (numerous) opportunities but this isn't what's in dispute.

Sorry, but my position remains; they're on par, in my opinion.

Ah well...I guess we are both entitled to our own opinions. For me, Ramps <<< Laxman at any level.

 

[marc71178]

Not at domestic level.

 

[Anil]

Originally posted by marc71178
Not at domestic level.

Ok I must clarify. By levels, I meant yardsticks(talent, temperament, match winning potential...). I didn't mean domestic and international. I will never judge or rank any player solely based on what they have done in Indian domestic cricket(or English county cricket for that matter). Ramps must have really shone at county level, but then so has Hick, in fact even more so. I don't consider either of them as international material.

 

[marc71178]

Oh right fair enough - I wonder how strong an England side of the Nineties would've been had we had Hick and Ramprakash translate their domestic game onto the World stage?

 

[aussie_beater]

Originally posted by Top_Cat

Sorry, but my position remains; they're on par, in my opinion.

In your opinion, they are par in terms of the talent, right ? Well that's disputable but you are entitled to your opinion, but they are definitely not on par in terms of performance...the average shows it and that's all that matters.

 

[Rik]

Laxman averages damn near 60 on Indian Flatbeds and Ramps and Hick average 46 and 53 on English seamers...about equal I feel although Hick is still one of the most talented players in the world...its just ashame he's never shown it at test level.

And don't bring the stats up, 100 hundreds you can't argue with, its just all in his head. He could have been one of the greatest...ashame he didn't really, English Cricket could really have done with a young star then!

[Edited on 6/11/2002 by Rik]

 

[aussie_beater]

Originally posted by Rik
Laxman averages damn near 60 on Indian Flatbeds and Ramps and Hick average 46 and 53 on English seamers...about equal I feel although

Look at the career test averages... Laxman is at 43.50 and Ramps is at 27.32.... so much for an argument.

 

[masterblaster]

nah, Laxman is good enough to play for India and certainly good enough to get into most sides around the world.

 

[Rik]

If Ramps was batting on Indian Pitches I bet he would be averaging 60 odd like most Indians...and I was not talking about Test Averages, it seems that Laxman has the confidence to use his talent rather than wasting it like Ramps...

 

[V Reddy]

I thought that he would play well after 2 good series but he suddenly fared badly in NZ. I thought that if he would just about hold onto his place for the series against SRL and IND he would have played very well against those weak bowling attacks.

 

[marc71178]

Ramprakash

I must admit to surprise at his non-selection for the Ashes, given his record against Oz, but definitely not disappointement!

 

[marc71178]

Ramprakash

I must admit to surprise at his non-selection for the Ashes, given his record against Oz, but definitely not disappointement!

 

[Andre]

Currently I'm going to have to say Anil Kumble, Ashwell Prince (maybe just by the selectors) and Matthew Hoggard.

 

[marc71178]

Depends what you mean be rated i Hoggard's case - I guess he's the bowling equivalent of VVS.

 

[masterblaster]

well for me, Damien Martyn is a little tiny bit overrated, and ofcourse Shane Watson

 

[Eclipse]

Damian Martyn is in no way overated masterblaster.

nether is Shane Watson ??


I know india would take both of them.