morgieb
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Like mid-2012 IIRC.
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Mohammed Amir cleared to return with immediate effect
- Thread starter cnerd123
- Start date
Depends entirely on how he plays it really. If he presents himself as entirely repentant and working hard to atone for it through his actions would the cricket world still judge him that harshly? He was definitely presented as the most sympathetic one of the trio.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
Crocodile tears imo.
Howe_zat
Audio File
The Evans thing is different in two important ways afaic. One it's football, which means public opinion both counts and is widespread enough for there to be a 'media narrative' (read: tabloid rage) around it. Leicestershire get 3 spectators in now and when was the last time they made the back page of the sun?
Second, Evans in the context of the EPL is pretty average. Amir if he's as good as he was before is well above your typical 2nd division bowler.
Don't like the idea but as Top_Cat says there are counties who would have him.
sledger
Spanish_Vicente
I largely agree with what Howe has said here, but at the same time, I think some counties would seriously think twice about hiring someone who's got a recent criminal conviction for basically deliberately bringing the game into disrepute.
If not for public pressure or issues of sponsorship, I suspect plenty of counties as a matter of principle would prefer to have nothing to do with him. Others might feel that he'd be a toxic presence, or would become a figure of hate, in the dressing room, and be similarly disinclined to touch him.
If not for public pressure or issues of sponsorship, I suspect plenty of counties as a matter of principle would prefer to have nothing to do with him. Others might feel that he'd be a toxic presence, or would become a figure of hate, in the dressing room, and be similarly disinclined to touch him.
GIMH
Norwood's on Fire
Well I don't want to sidetrack but it was certainly far more than tabloid rage around Evans.
I kind of accept your other points, but:
1. The clubs linked with Evans were the definition of tinpot, Oldham and Hartlepool (I may be being overly nasty in the hope skd reads this)
2. Amir's crime was so high profile that any hint of a signing would hit big, IMO
That being said, his crimes were against the game rather than an appalling *** crime which obviously narrows the world view of it, and his contrition, whether genuine or not, definitely makes a difference.
My point really is that ex-cons who've previously gone under the radar in returning to sport will now automatically draw more publicity IMO as people will seek to compare them to Ched.
All kind of moot I would imagine, as according to what sledger posted he wouldn't be eligible for a visa until mid-2017. Even if the Pakistan government declare war upon the refusal of one solitary visa, as AN would have me believe.
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
Before going off and playing club cricket in direct breach of his ban...
Fusion
Global Moderator
Well than it's good for him that the courts have an established procedure on how to handle these cases and don't go by the arbitrary sense of justice of the general public.
As others have stated, he's done the time and as per the rules established by his profession, is eligible to come back. When this incident first came to light, I was outraged, embarrassed, and angry. My initial reaction was that I never wanted him back playing for Pakistan. Plenty of time has passed since then and it has allowed me to take the raw emotion out of it. Though I don't agree with the excuse of "he didn't know any better", I do sympathize with his age and the fact that he was influenced by his captain. He was young and he made a mistake. Yes, I know there are plenty of young people that follow the law and wouldn't have done what Amir did. It's heartening for society that young people as a whole are responsible and law abiding. But we all know that many of our youth can be tempted into bad behavior. My preference with dealing with them is to punish them for their wrong deed, but give them another chance in life. As long as they abide by the rules subsequently, and knowing how much extra scrutiny they'll be under, I think it's fair to give them that second chance.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
Flem274*
123/5
nah **** him.
lou vincent came out and admitted what he was, cooperated fully, and he can't even watch his kids play because he has a life ban. oh, and while he was a fixer he was going through depression and a divorce.
then you have amir, who acted like a brat through the entire saga (breaking the no cricket rule, playing the woe is me card) who is fully functional mentally and had recently been educated about how to deal with fixing and that fixing is wrong, but because he's uber-talented he gets a free ride and the sympathy of millions.
if amir had been anything except an exceptional talent nobody would give a **** about him. if he was your average 17 year old (lol "17") FC bowler or a 25 year old averaging 35 in test cricket instead of less than 30 everyone would want to throw the book at him. look at asif. he's exceptional too but everyone agrees he can **** off.
amir deserves a second chance, but it shouldn't be in cricket. he was a stupid, greedy, entitled kid who took playing for his country for granted and his punishment was to go to prison for a little while, get released early then allowed to return to the game he tried to ruin. **** him, i hope steyn or johnson breaks his arm or he receives a warner/mccullum special.
lou vincent came out and admitted what he was, cooperated fully, and he can't even watch his kids play because he has a life ban. oh, and while he was a fixer he was going through depression and a divorce.
then you have amir, who acted like a brat through the entire saga (breaking the no cricket rule, playing the woe is me card) who is fully functional mentally and had recently been educated about how to deal with fixing and that fixing is wrong, but because he's uber-talented he gets a free ride and the sympathy of millions.
if amir had been anything except an exceptional talent nobody would give a **** about him. if he was your average 17 year old (lol "17") FC bowler or a 25 year old averaging 35 in test cricket instead of less than 30 everyone would want to throw the book at him. look at asif. he's exceptional too but everyone agrees he can **** off.
amir deserves a second chance, but it shouldn't be in cricket. he was a stupid, greedy, entitled kid who took playing for his country for granted and his punishment was to go to prison for a little while, get released early then allowed to return to the game he tried to ruin. **** him, i hope steyn or johnson breaks his arm or he receives a warner/mccullum special.
Fusion
Global Moderator
The above is contradictory, no? Everyone apparently only wants to give him a chance because he's an exceptional talent. Yet, they don't want to do the same for Asif, even though he was also an exceptional talent. Could it be that the difference here is that this was Amir's first offense, and that too at a young age, whereas Asif was a repeat offender at breaking the rules?
I'm sure this aspect will come into play with him. Though I would hope that resorting to violent tactics, especially in light of the Hughes tragedy, would be looked upon unfavorably. However, I'm sure Amir would be prepared to deal with hostile tactics from the opposition, in whatever form, as part of the price he has to pay for his return.
I must confess, all the rage that Amir elicits from cricket fans does perplex me. At the risk of sounding rude, I do want to tell people to relax. This isn't a mass murderer of babies returning to the sport. It's a flawed young man who made a mistake. Let's have some perspective here.
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Flem274*
123/5
@ Hendrix: Chris Cairns didn't threaten him or take advantage of Vincent's mental condition at all.
I'm sorry Hendrix but I can't agree with you at all. Amir was well educated by the ICC many times about fixing. It's been said by numerous past players that you can't go through youth cricket in the modern era and not know what fixing is or how to deal with an approach from a bookie or a player in your team. There were clean players in that Pakistani side and setup - Amir, Asif, Butt and maybe Wahab Riaz were the criminals. He could have gone to his coach, he could have gone to other senior players or he even could have gone to the ICC directly.
Amir is a brat.
I'm sorry Hendrix but I can't agree with you at all. Amir was well educated by the ICC many times about fixing. It's been said by numerous past players that you can't go through youth cricket in the modern era and not know what fixing is or how to deal with an approach from a bookie or a player in your team. There were clean players in that Pakistani side and setup - Amir, Asif, Butt and maybe Wahab Riaz were the criminals. He could have gone to his coach, he could have gone to other senior players or he even could have gone to the ICC directly.
Amir is a brat.
Flem274*
123/5
He's a fixer. This isn't a first offense like swearing at an umpire or maybe even starting a fight on the field. He was young but he knew what he was doing and he was paid very well for it.
I think people get emotional about this because Amir dragged the game through the mud and people make excuses for him because he was a little 17 year old tulip who couldn't read or write but was uber-talented.
He knows more than I do about how to deal with fixing situations because he's been educated about it, so the third world poor little him argument doesn't wash.
I agree it's both that he's talented and young that did the trick. Asif got the book thrown at him because he had he wrong numbers next to his date of birth.
Amir can redeem himself and live an excellent life in many other ways, but like with Lou Vincent it shouldn't be in cricket. I might be in the minority but I think someone with depression is at least as vulnerable as a 17 year old with the world at their feet.
hendrix
Hall of Fame Member
1. Everyone knew about match fixing, but very little was known about spot fixing. The news sites all had to explain what exactly it was. Without thinking about how badly it rips off bookmakers (and remember, gambling is illegal in Pakistan so who cares about them), it didn't even seem that wrong initially when I explained it to some friends. Of course, it's very, very wrong, but in a sense it's like insider trading where you have an understanding of finance to actually make sense of how wrong it is. It's not something that is intuitively as wrong as match fixing.
2. How many players from Pakistan have said this? I just don't believe their useless board has been as good at player education as England's.
3. Who knows how many others in the team were fixers? The captain, leading fast bowler, and other senior players have all been implicated. Mohammed Yousuf has had murmurings about him. Waqar. Wasim. The one guy in the Pakistan team with a reputation for absolute honesty is someone who's been repeatedly screwed over by his board and the players.
4. Chris Cairns' threats are empty. There is nothing he could have done to Vincent. Sure depression is a horrible thing but you know exactly what you're doing. I won't go as far as to say it's not a mitigating factor at all, but I do believe his crimes were far worse than Amir's.
