Michael Clarke - all hype, no performance

[Son Of Coco]

Well, Micheal Clarke & Micheal Kasprowicz both finished with 38 runs for the series. All hype & No performance.

Which player are you talking about?

To be honest, given where you come from and where he comes from it's hardly surprising you think so - yes it is that thinly-veiled at times haha. I'll agree that he's had a particularly poor series though.

 

[age_master]

Well, Micheal Clarke & Micheal Kasprowicz both finished with 38 runs for the series. All hype & No performance.

yeah, just like the tour of india

 

[age_master]

You can only HOPE it doesnt last, Faaip..as do i...but there is no garantee that class equals performance...if it were so, Graeme Hick and Carl hooper would've been counted amongst the greatest batsmen ever.

not to mention ME Waugh

 

[SJS]

This is an amazing trend.

To drop players from pedestal to pedestrian crossings, from heights to heaps, fraving about them to rubbishing them.

Isnt there enough cricketing knowledge and acumen to see a good player through bad scores and a mediocre player through a big score. To see the difference between class and form.

This is the day of the fast food aficionado rather than a connoisseur of good cuisine.

 

[Mister Wright]

Which player are you talking about?

To be honest, given where you come from and where he comes from it's hardly surprising you think so - yes it is that thinly-veiled at times haha. I'll agree that he's had a particularly poor series though.

It's not that he had a poor series, it's the way he got out, edging to 1st slip. Now if you're slashing & get caught @ 2nd or 3rd, or if you get a jaffer & caught by the keeper - fair enough, but to be continually caught at first slip is a technical floor.

 

[C_C]

i think its a wee bit too early to say anything about Clarke....
my position on newbies ( brilliant newbies, average newbies, poor newbies, etc.) is that they havnt been around long enough to gauge if they will pull out of a slump/keep up the great goings or not...

Like for eg, if someone like Ponting or Tendy hits a rough patch, i think most of us know that it is just a matter of time...that they will snap out of it - they are great players with proven credentials and have pulled out of slumps before...
But with Clarke or Pathan or Bravo...who knows, right ?

Having the game is only the token ante ( to borrow a poker term).... a lotta players have come with a great initial game, got figured out and disappeared without a blip... its all about how you adjust.....mostly, newbies get railroaded in their second/third season as suddenly people start to take notice of em, plan more dilligently and pick flaws far more microscopically....whether they can recover from that or not, only time will tell...

For all we know, the likes of Clarke or Pathan could become the next Greg Chappell and McGrath......or they could become Jimmy Adams and Narendra Hirwani......who knows.
Until they've played 4-5 seasons and have a few dozen games under the belt, i wont even begin to evaluate em save for pure form-only analysis.

 

[howardj]

This is an amazing trend.

To drop players from pedestal to pedestrian crossings, from heights to heaps, fraving about them to rubbishing them.

.

Implicit in your post is that everyone now rubbishing Clarke, were all praising him to begin with. That just isnt correct. I - and many others by the looks of it - have always thought that he was deficient against decent pace bowling, in the longer form of the game.

 

[Top_Cat]

Until they've played 4-5 seasons and have a few dozen games under the belt, i wont even begin to evaluate em save for pure form-only analysis.

Exactly. Which is exactly why people such as myself were saying on here he was picked too early. Yes he started with a bang but in my view (no different to what it was months ago), it was only a matter of time before he got found out. He's been found out outside off-stump and it's now up to him to fix it. Only problem is, he'll have to fix it at Test level because he likely won't play interstate cricket for a while. This will make it FAR tougher for him.

Now for another prediction; his 'not-getting-right-to-the-pitch-of-the-ball' fault now exposed, how long before Clarke becomes hesitant agianst the short ones? It's all too easy to belt bowlers around when the pressure isn't on you to score runs and confidence is at 100000% but with his confidence waning a bit after recent failures, well we'll see right?

 

[SJS]

Implicit in your post is that everyone now rubbishing Clarke, were all praising him to begin with. That just isnt correct. I - and many others by the looks of it - have always thought that he was deficient against decent pace bowling, in the longer form of the game.

Not exactly Howard.

I was referring to a tendency to rubbish anyone after a poor performance whether a match or a series.

For a short career that Clarke has had, he has done pretty well. To shine in a team as strong as Australia is not so easy as to be achieved by plain hype.

Maybe he has a weakness against fast bowling , I dont know but then I havent seen him playing express bowling so I am in no position to comment, but he has done well against spin , where some of the best have failed, on continental pitches, where again some of the best have failed, in both forms of the game, which is commendable.

So. if he has a weakness against pace bowling, it doesnt mean he is all hot air or hype. Come on he is a young cricketer who will mature and improve over time. No one should expect him to be as good as the best in the business. But surely there is something between a player who is very good against spin, medium pace, express pace, on all wickets, all conditions AND a player who is " is all hype, and little performance"

This is what I am saying. Most players will fall in between the super super infallible star and the good for nothing over hyped over rated chump.

Its we, the fans, who build them up as super stars because of the runs they score (and not by clinically analyising there game, and who rubbish them because they DONT score.

Thats what I was saying. Its possible to see a good player through a low score and an average player through a huge score if we are willing and able to do that.

 

[Mister Wright]

Yeah, but the thing is SJS, he is all hype over here without the performance. He has struggled at first class level, barely getting his average near 40. He has been talked up as the next big thing, and people are saying things like he should not be discouraged by getting out playing attacking shots, when the situation hasn't called for it. The media just love him, and gave him the attention to get into the International side, I just hope they apply the same scrutiny to his failures.

 

[age_master]

Exactly. Which is exactly why people such as myself were saying on here he was picked too early. Yes he started with a bang but in my view (no different to what it was months ago), it was only a matter of time before he got found out. He's been found out outside off-stump and it's now up to him to fix it. Only problem is, he'll have to fix it at Test level because he likely won't play interstate cricket for a while. This will make it FAR tougher for him.

Now for another prediction; his 'not-getting-right-to-the-pitch-of-the-ball' fault now exposed, how long before Clarke becomes hesitant agianst the short ones? It's all too easy to belt bowlers around when the pressure isn't on you to score runs and confidence is at 100000% but with his confidence waning a bit after recent failures, well we'll see right?

i think the only problem is the confidence/pressure - the technical things never matter as much.

i think he has to learn what pace to set about scoring runs at in tests, since he got the AB medal (even a little before) i think that hes been trying to bat too defensivley in order not to get out, but not scoring runs and getting his innings going at the same time which has been whats hurting him. i reakon if he just went out like he would in an ODI he would be fine. time will tell.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

i think the only problem is the confidence/pressure - the technical things never matter as much.

i think he has to learn what pace to set about scoring runs at in tests, since he got the AB medal (even a little before) i think that hes been trying to bat too defensivley in order not to get out, but not scoring runs and getting his innings going at the same time which has been whats hurting him. i reakon if he just went out like he would in an ODI he would be fine. time will tell.

I actually disagree. I think he's been going out too hard as soon as he came to the crease, when he is clearly vulnerable early in his innings in the same way Ponting is. When he tried to get himself set (under the advice of Ponting, I believe) in the third test he looked good, until of course he was unfortunately run out, through no real fault of his own.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Yeah, but the thing is SJS, he is all hype over here without the performance. He has struggled at first class level, barely getting his average near 40. He has been talked up as the next big thing, and people are saying things like he should not be discouraged by getting out playing attacking shots, when the situation hasn't called for it. The media just love him, and gave him the attention to get into the International side, I just hope they apply the same scrutiny to his failures.

And of course, the hype has nothing to do with the fact that he is a massive talent, does it? Strange then that everyone who has seen him aside from Queenslanders and Richard seem to see his massive talent despite his apparent lack of performance.

As I recall you were rubbishing the decision to put him at the top of the order in the VB series too, right? I suppose that was just a few flukes on the way back to consistent failure?

 

[howardj]

And of course, the hype has nothing to do with the fact that he is a massive talent, does it? Strange then that everyone who has seen him aside from Queenslanders and Richard seem to see his massive talent despite his apparent lack of performance.

As I recall you were rubbishing the decision to put him at the top of the order in the VB series too, right? I suppose that was just a few flukes on the way back to consistent failure?

In the longer form of the game, why is he a massive talent? What do you base that on? Just because people keep saying he is? It's surely not based on his FC record, nor his Test record, when he faces pace in anything less than benign conditions.

 

[mavric41]

Well, Micheal Clarke & Micheal Kasprowicz both finished with 38 runs for the series. All hype & No performance.

Yes but Kaspa took more wickets.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Yes but Kaspa took more wickets.

Only a few.

 

[age_master]

I actually disagree. I think he's been going out too hard as soon as he came to the crease, when he is clearly vulnerable early in his innings in the same way Ponting is. When he tried to get himself set (under the advice of Ponting, I believe) in the third test he looked good, until of course he was unfortunately run out, through no real fault of his own.

he looked ok, started to find abit of form again.


im sorta still getting ideas together in my head (as you can probably tell) in batting 'defensivley' hes been pushing at balls that he should be leaving or having a real go at. like getting out to astle, it was a half half shot, no real purpose to it just pushing. normally he would leave it or hit it into the outfield.

basically hes not playing his natural game, and trying to do to much and in the process not really doing anything

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

In the longer form of the game, why is he a massive talent? What do you base that on? Just because people keep saying he is? It's surely not based on his FC record, nor his Test record, when he faces pace in anything less than benign conditions.

Because I've seen every one of his test innings and it's clear to me that he is a very good player? His debut century was simply spectacular, and all his recent problems show is that he is vulnerable to good pace bowling before he gets set early in his innings. This is hardly a crime and the same can be said of plenty of other good players. I believe he can overcome this problem, and I think he took a step in the right direction in his last test innings.

 

[age_master]

Yes but Kaspa took more wickets.

indeed Clarke 2 wickets @ 12

Kaspa 8 at nearly 40

 

[age_master]

In the longer form of the game, why is he a massive talent? What do you base that on? Just because people keep saying he is? It's surely not based on his FC record, nor his Test record, when he faces pace in anything less than benign conditions.

you cant be talented in one form and not the other, your talented or your not. different skills might be more suited to diferent forms but talent is still there