Medium-pacers

[Arjun]

Edwards and Best aren't tall at all. How tall is the average Indian pacer?

Most Indian fast bowlers of the past, pre-Kapil, were usually 5'6" r 5'7", which is why they were never really effective. Even among Kapil's medium-pace men, there were a few short ones. The last genuine all-rounder, Manoj Prabhakar, was 5'8", and was more of a swing bowler. India has never produced express pace bowlers, but more swing bowlers. The current lot are quite tall- Zheer is 6'2", Nehra is 6'1", Irfan is 6'4", Balaji is 6'3", Bhandari is 5'11", Salvi is 6'1", then there are stories of Raghavendra Rao, who's 6'5".

care to name a few fast bowlers who were/are as tall as tendulkar??? and gough and zaheer are relatively short for fast bowlers.....anybody under 6 feet is considered to be short for a fast bowler!

Ajit Agarkar, Harvinder Singh, Robin Singh Junior, chetan Sharma, Manoj Prabhakar and many from the past were quite short. Gough and Zaheer may be short to many, but they're tall by Indian standards.

regardless you've got the whole thing mixed up, its not height that gives you more pace.....in fact the best short bowlers tend to be fast. taller bowlers tend to get more out of a wicket than short bowlers hence the tendency to be more effective even without pace(glenn mcgrath).

Height doesn't give more pace, but gives more power. That's why the taller bowlers are always faster, and more effective, than the shorter ones. And they last longer. At that pace.

Glenn McGrath was not only accurate, but his accuracy lasted long. He was also very strong. Anyway, taller fast bowlers shouldn't go for too much pace, as they are likely to get injured more often.

 

[Arjun]

Shortest i've seen is AA and even he's 4 inches taller than SRT.

Are you sure? He looked a lot shorter than Douglas Marillier, Yuvraj Singh and Dinesh Mongia!

 

[tooextracool]

Most Indian fast bowlers of the past, pre-Kapil, were usually 5'6" r 5'7", which is why they were never really effective. Even among Kapil's medium-pace men, there were a few short ones. The last genuine all-rounder, Manoj Prabhakar, was 5'8", and was more of a swing bowler. India has never produced express pace bowlers, but more swing bowlers. The current lot are quite tall- Zheer is 6'2", Nehra is 6'1", Irfan is 6'4", Balaji is 6'3", Bhandari is 5'11", Salvi is 6'1", then there are stories of Raghavendra Rao, who's 6'5".

didnt you just say that many indian fast bowlers are as tall as tendulkar?there is a considerable difference between the heights of those players and tendulkar as far as i can see. and despite the fact that the current crop of bowlers are pretty tall they arent all that fast so i think your assumption that taller bowlers are faster goes down the drain......

Height doesn't give more pace, but gives more power. That's why the taller bowlers are always faster, and more effective, than the shorter ones. And they last longer. At that pace.

hold on....height doesnt give more pace, yet taller bowlers are always faster? what is your point there? mcgrath,bicknell,caddick,oram,tuffey etc are pretty tall yet they only just bowl above 80 mph.....yet bowlers like gough,simon jones,craig white(for a while),edwards etc bowled abt 10 mph faster.

Anyway, taller fast bowlers shouldn't go for too much pace, as they are likely to get injured more often.

thats not exactly much of theory......tall bowlers dont exactly get injured more often than short bowlers.

 

[chicane]

Most Indian fast bowlers of the past, pre-Kapil, were usually 5'6" r 5'7", which is why they were never really effective. Even among Kapil's medium-pace men, there were a few short ones. The last genuine all-rounder, Manoj Prabhakar, was 5'8", and was more of a swing bowler. India has never produced express pace bowlers, but more swing bowlers. The current lot are quite tall- Zheer is 6'2", Nehra is 6'1", Irfan is 6'4", Balaji is 6'3", Bhandari is 5'11", Salvi is 6'1", then there are stories of Raghavendra Rao, who's 6'5".

Dude your obsession with pace is irriating. Anyway, India have produced Srinath who was by any standard express. And your height figures are totally inaccurate - here they are in order -

Ashish Nehra 6'2
Zaheer Khan 6'1
Irfan Pathan 6'1
Laxmipathy Balaji 5'11
Ajit Agarkar 5'9"

Ajit Agarkar, Harvinder Singh, Robin Singh Junior, chetan Sharma, Manoj Prabhakar and many from the past were quite short. Gough and Zaheer may be short to many, but they're tall by Indian standards.

All way taller than SRT who's for your info only 5'4. I don't know how you arrived at that 'Indian standard'. Srinath, Prasad, Kuruvilla, Mohanty, Harvinder were all 6' plus.

Height doesn't give more pace, but gives more power. That's why the taller bowlers are always faster, and more effective, than the shorter ones. And they last longer. At that pace.

Eh? How the hell does height give more power. Care to explain your new theory professor. It only results in more bounce. Pace comes from strong shoulders and arms, and also from the run-up.

Glenn McGrath was not only accurate, but his accuracy lasted long. He was also very strong. Anyway, taller fast bowlers shouldn't go for too much pace, as they are likely to get injured more often.

Oh finally you have a decent point!

 

[chicane]

Are you sure? He looked a lot shorter than Douglas Marillier, Yuvraj Singh and Dinesh Mongia!

because he is a lot shorter than them! Tendulkar is a lot lot shorter than all of them.

 

[Arjun]

hold on....height doesnt give more pace, yet taller bowlers are always faster? what is your point there? mcgrath,bicknell,caddick,oram,tuffey etc are pretty tall yet they only just bowl above 80 mph.....yet bowlers like gough,simon jones,craig white(for a while),edwards etc bowled abt 10 mph faster.

Bicknell? He's the laziest fast bowler or slow-medium pacer I have ever seen! They are all capable of bowling at that pace, yet only Harmison, Flintoff, Jones and a few others have taken to it. Jones was described as 'taller than Indian bowlers' in India's tour of England in 2002.

didnt you just say that many indian fast bowlers are as tall as tendulkar?there is a considerable difference between the heights of those players and tendulkar as far as i can see. and despite the fact that the current crop of bowlers are pretty tall they arent all that fast so i think your assumption that taller bowlers are faster goes down the drain......

These are just a few exceptions. In each fast bowling attack, they're the only tall ones (Balaji is taller than other TN pacers). The rest are just as short. My assumption does nto go down the drain, as long as Harmison is in action.

hold on....height doesnt give more pace, yet taller bowlers are always faster?

They can sustain that pace for a longer time.

 

[tooextracool]

Bicknell? He's the laziest fast bowler or slow-medium pacer I have ever seen! They are all capable of bowling at that pace, yet only Harmison, Flintoff, Jones and a few others have taken to it. Jones was described as 'taller than Indian bowlers' in India's tour of England in 2002..

ok this is just rubbish....when a tall bowler bowls at 80 mph you call them lazy whereas when a short bowler bowls fast you call them exceptions? this is quite ridiculous because it doesnt matter how tall or short you are....pace depends on fitness,muscle power and on your action.

These are just a few exceptions. In each fast bowling attack, they're the only tall ones (Balaji is taller than other TN pacers). The rest are just as short. My assumption does nto go down the drain, as long as Harmison is in action..

yes from one tall bowler who bowls fast you come to the conclusion that all tall bowlers are faster than short bowlers?dont be ridiculous....your theory has been disproved so dont go on calling them exceptions etc

They can sustain that pace for a longer time.

eh?

 

[chicane]

These are just a few exceptions. In each fast bowling attack, they're the only tall ones (Balaji is taller than other TN pacers). The rest are just as short. My assumption does nto go down the drain, as long as Harmison is in action.

Like you've seen the other TN players. If you have and you think they are Sachin's height.....

They can sustain that pace for a longer time.

What nonsense. How does stamina have anything to do with height? Tino Best has so much stamina.

 

[Arjun]

yes from one tall bowler who bowls fast you come to the conclusion that all tall bowlers are faster than short bowlers?dont be ridiculous....your theory has been disproved so dont go on calling them exceptions etc

Name any bowler who could bowl fast, and still can, and you'll know he's quite tall.

 

[Arjun]

Like you've seen the other TN players. If you have and you think they are Sachin's height.....

I have seen Srinivas and he's short, so are some other medium-pacers. Suresh is tall, but he's not a real bowling option.

What nonsense. How does stamina have anything to do with height? Tino Best has so much stamina.

For a plain 134-135kph delivery, a small man has to put in a lot of effort. This is a walk in the park for a tall bowler with enough muscle power.

 

[tooextracool]

Name any bowler who could bowl fast, and still can, and you'll know he's quite tall.

there has never been a fast bowler who has maintained pace above 90 mph throughout his career.....you seem to be confusing pace with effectiveness in which case you are right because bowlers like walsh,ambrose,mcgrath,caddick etc although they lost a lot of pace throughout their careers still remained pretty effective till the end because they got a more bounce out of a wicket than a shorter fast bowler would(note-that doesnt mean they bowled with more pace!)

 

[chicane]

I have seen Srinivas and he's short, so are some other medium-pacers. Suresh is tall, but he's not a real bowling option.
For a plain 134-135kph delivery, a small man has to put in a lot of effort. This is a walk in the park for a tall bowler with enough muscle power.

Are any of them Sachin's height? NO. And Arjun can you please explain WHY a short man can't have enough muscle power? Height and strength, height and pace are UNRELATED. You're all screwed up.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Right, just some maths to add into this - longer arms will by default increase the speed of bowling due to some basic mechanics principle that I can't remember properly, something to do with angular velocity * radius of circle = directional velocity (terms are probably wrong).

 

[tooextracool]

For a plain 134-135kph delivery, a small man has to put in a lot of effort. This is a walk in the park for a tall bowler with enough muscle power.

yes that is true.....but it doesnt mean that shorter bowlers are less capable of bowling at 150 kph.

 

[chicane]

Right, just some maths to add into this - longer arms will by default increase the speed of bowling due to some basic mechanics principle that I can't remember properly, something to do with angular velocity * radius of circle = directional velocity (terms are probably wrong).

That's true....a bigger radius will result in higher linear velocity. But it's not the only thing.....like you see Sami isn't very tall but he has a lightning quick arm action which generates all the pace. Shoulder muscles and rare muscle conditions(which are present in most express pacers) are required for higher arm velocity, and probably harness the extra radius in taller bowlers. If that were the only thing, Adam Sanford and Mervyn Dillon would be very quick.

 

[masterblaster]

Arjun, seriously height doesnt really play as significant a factor as you are making it out to be. The formula that Neil mentioned explained all that.

Fidel Edwards, Mohammad Sami, Shane Bond and Shoaib Akhtar aren't incredibly tall, yet they are the fastest going around today. Harmison is quick but not as quick as the guys above.

That pretty much throws the height = speed equation out the door doesnt it. All height helps with is the steep bounce and lateral movement that a bowler like Harmison or Curtly Ambrose gets.

Waqar wasn't incredibly tall, yet got so much pace. Look at his action, look at Akhtar's, look at Edwards', then the angular velocity formula will make a lot more sense.

Also, pace isn't really everything and I'm really happy with the bunch of bowlers we have now. But last time I checked, Irfan Pathan who bowls in the 120-135 kph range has outbowled Shoaib Akhtar, Mohammad Sami and Shabbir Ahmed recently.

So much for height = pace = success

 

[chicane]

Right, just some maths to add into this - longer arms will by default increase the speed of bowling due to some basic mechanics principle that I can't remember properly, something to do with angular velocity * radius of circle = directional velocity (terms are probably wrong).

linear velocity = radius * Angular velocity (v=omega*radius)
linear acceleration = radius * Angular acceleration (a=alfa*radius)

 

[chicane]

Arjun, seriously height doesnt really play as significant a factor as you are making it out to be. The formula that Neil mentioned explained all that.

Fidel Edwards, Mohammad Sami, Shane Bond and Shoaib Akhtar aren't incredibly tall, yet they are the fastest going around today. Harmison is quick but not as quick as the guys above.

That pretty much throws the height = speed equation out the door doesnt it. All height helps with is the steep bounce and lateral movement that a bowler like Harmison or Curtly Ambrose gets.

Waqar wasn't incredibly tall, yet got so much pace. Look at his action, look at Akhtar's, look at Edwards', then the angular velocity formula will make a lot more sense.

Also, pace isn't really everything and I'm really happy with the bunch of bowlers we have now. But last time I checked, Irfan Pathan who bowls in the 120-135 kph range has outbowled Shoaib Akhtar, Mohammad Sami and Shabbir Ahmed recently.

So much for height = pace = success

Actually according to that formula height should help pace. Because we multiply the radius i.e arm length by the angular velocity. A person with longer arms(usually taller) will require less angular velocity while a person with shorter arms will require more angular velocity (eg. Sami, AA, who generate pace with quick arm actions).

 

[Neil Pickup]

linear velocity = radius * Angular velocity (v=omega*radius)
linear acceleration = radius * Angular acceleration (a=alfa*radius)

Given that I've not looked at any kind of mechanics in fourteen months, it wasn't a bad attempt!

 

[masterblaster]

Still, it was a fair effort Neil.