Kallis Vs Wasim

[kyear2]

Ponting is closer to Lara/Tendulkar than Dravid/Kallis.

Easily.

 

[kyear2]

Your inconsistencies

Having differing opinions from yours aren't inconsistencies.

Stalking my posts is creepy though.

 

[subshakerz]

He was not clearly seen as the no. 1 dominant all rounder of the era, and you know this.

Nonsense. I can give you a list of many peers, from Holding to Hadlee to the Chappell bros to Lillee to Border, who rated Imran as the best AR of the era, akin to Wasim as the best pacer of his era. He makes more ATG XIs than any of them and was rated ahead of them in Wisden's Cricketers of the Century. You don't need to add the word dominant since I never put that as a criteria, I said best.

He was clearly seen as third best of the 80's and 4th for overall mid 70's -80's era including Lillee.

Yes so I rate him 3rd best of the 80s. So what is the inconsistency exactly?

 

[kyear2]

As is scoring consistently and in tougher playing conditions, which are a tad bit more important....

Those don't apply to the arguments you're making though.

Sunny wasn't more consistent, he had more big scores, and he definely played in easier conditions than Viv.

Kallis also played in tougher conditions than Dravid and was just as consistent.

 

[subshakerz]

Kallis also played in tougher conditions than Dravid and was just as consistent.

There are different reasons in favor of Dravid. It's not open and shut.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Those don't apply to the arguments you're making though.

Sunny wasn't more consistent, he had more big scores, and he definely played in easier conditions than Viv.

Kallis also played in tougher conditions than Dravid and was just as consistent.

Largely untrue. WI was hardly tougher to bat for the majority than India.
And the latter is the reason Kallis is slightly better than BOTH Dravid and Ponting.

 

[capt_Luffy]

There are different reasons in favor of Dravid. It's not open and shut.

As in favor of Ponting and Kallis, but yeah, I will mostly place him behind them.

 

[smash84]

Stalking my posts is creepy though.

I thought you were beyond getting creeped out

 

[kyear2]

The idea that Ponting is closer to Tendulkar than Kallis is the very reason I feel Ponting is massively overrated.

Or, or..... You could be wrong?

If that was the opinion back then, and still now???

Note, not saying you are, I'm saying for me, and apparently others that's not the opinion held.

 

[subshakerz]

If you think Kallis is rated both poorly and highly, why do you accept the poor rating as evidence of something, but not the high one?

Good question. First off, we shouldn't conflate a rating as an AR for a rating as a bat.

Second, the high AR rating is true but is just further evidence to me that Kallis was the best AR of his era. That's it.

Peers of his time aren't qualified to compare him to Sobers or Bradman or whatever but to other players from his time. That's how I use peer rating, only respective to peers they play against.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Or, or..... You could be wrong?

If that was the opinion back then, and still now???

Note, not saying you are, I'm saying for me, and apparently others that's not the opinion held.

As you can be about Richards and Sunny, or a variety of things..... All of us can be wrong.

And highly doubt that's really the opinion till now, atleast for the majority. Not when Ponting ranked 12th (quite high) and Kallis 13th (about right).

 

[OverratedSanity]

Indian pitches in the 70s/80s had some random dustbowls from time to time. What's the basis for saying he played in easier conditions than Viv?

 

[kyear2]

Thank you. You're learning so well.

The weird **** you take credit for.

 

[Bolo.]

Good question. First off, we shouldn't conflate a rating as an AR for a rating as a bat.

Second, the high AR rating is true but is just further evidence to me that Kallis was the best AR of his era. That's it.

Peers of his time aren't qualified to compare him to Sobers or Bradman or whatever but to other players from his time. That's how I use peer rating, only respective to peers they play against.

We aren't conflating AR and batting ratings. It's a question of why differing ratings by the same people on the same player would hold weight when they confirm your opinion but not when they run contrary to it.

Similarly, why put stock in Wasim's peer rating when you yourself disagree with it?

By your logic, contemporaries may not be qualified to hold an opinion of older players. But they are qualified to hold a ridiculously high opinion of Kallis. I think an opinion like best ever transcends the lack of other options from his era.

 

[kyear2]

Nonsense. I can give you a list of many peers, from Holding to Hadlee to the Chappell bros to Lillee to Border, who rated Imran as the best AR of the era, akin to Wasim as the best pacer of his era. He makes more ATG XIs than any of them and was rated ahead of them in Wisden's Cricketers of the Century. You don't need to add the word dominant since I never put that as a criteria, I said best.


Yes so I rate him 3rd best of the 80s. So what is the inconsistency exactly?

Post them, because I've been looking. The best I've found was Hadlee saying that he was possibly the most consistent.
I've heard Holding saying he was the best captain Pakistan has had, that's basically.it.

Not saying you're wrong, saying I've not found them. So kindly post them.

 

[kyear2]

Largely untrue. WI was hardly tougher to bat for the majority than India.
And the latter is the reason Kallis is slightly better than BOTH Dravid and Ponting.

What? Indian pitches were tougher to bat on that West Indian ones? The dead ass pitches of India compared to Sabina and Kensington?

That's the position you're putting forward?

 

[kyear2]

I thought you were beyond getting creeped out

Not by u

 

[capt_Luffy]

What? Indian pitches were tougher to bat on that West Indian ones? The dead ass pitches of India compared to Sabina and Kensington?

That's the position you're putting forward?

No, the Chennai turners to Georgetown..... You yourself said how flat Bourda and QPO were; and Bengaluru, Kanpur and Chennai were anything but flat. We all can cherry pick pitches.

 

[kyear2]

As you can be about Richards and Sunny, or a variety of things..... All of us can be wrong.

And highly doubt that's really the opinion till now, atleast for the majority. Not when Ponting ranked 12th (quite high) and Kallis 13th (about right).

Lol, you can't use the same list to validate one, but say the rating for the other one is wrong, lol

 

[capt_Luffy]

Lol, you can't use the same list to validate one, but say the rating for the other one is wrong, lol

I am invalidating the point that majority shares the opinion that Ponting being closer to Sachin than Kallis; not my personal views in which I made it clear how overrated he is I feel.