Is Viv Richards an Overrated Test Batsman?

[Sanz]

So you are telling me that Viv played fast bowlers and spinners equally well? Yes or No?

First of all the above statement is different from saying "his weakness was against spin".Was he better against fast bowling than against spin bowling, maybe even though I don't see how anyone who has not seen him bat can conclude that because statistically it shows the opposite. Against Bedi, Chandra, Prasanna, Venkat and Qadir (when any one of them played ) he averages close to 60.


Secondly on what basis are you suggesting that "incidentally that was not an era of spin bowling" ?

Are you suggesting that the Indian Spin bowlers of Bedi, Chandra, Prasanna and Venkat were not good ?

 

[robelinda]

Oh, so now Viv wasnt attacking enough against spinners??? Could this thread get any more ridiculous?

 

[Burgey]

I am not saying Viv was **** against spin. He was not his commanding self against spinners and that intimidation factor was not to be seen against them. And we know there's a gulf of class between Chandra / Qadir and Murali / Warne. I can ad reverse swing too to the recipe. Another novel art, that Viv was not tested agsinst.

So you are telling me that Viv played fast bowlers and spinners equally well? Yes or No?

He played most everyone well.

The idea that he had some weakness against spin is a nonsense (not saying you're saying it btw).

I mean, saying Viv didn't play spin as well as he played pace is like saying Tendulkar or Lara didn't play pace as well as they played spin. Doesn't mean they weren't excellent against both, just that (imo anyway) they were better players of spin than of pace.

Cue Hauritz to dismiss Tendulkar now after he takes apart the quicks.

 

[robelinda]

Yeah Sachin is terrible against spin, he couldnt even handle Peter McIntyre, looked all at sea.

 

[Spark]

Cue Hauritz to dismiss Tendulkar now after he takes apart the quicks.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah Sachin is terrible against spin, he couldnt even handle Peter McIntyre, looked all at sea.

Cos that's what I said. Here, help yourself...

 

[robelinda]

Youre on the ball today. I take it youve never encountered sarcasm before? Must be a good rock you live under.

 

[Top_Cat]

Burgey is terrible against spin because he once kept out Dougeh. Discuss.

 

[Burgey]

Burgey is terrible against spin because he once kept out Dougeh. Discuss.

Tis true.

Alas, 'tis true...

 

[Slifer]

He may not have played a spinner of the Murali, Warne class. But check out his series vs IND 75/76 & vs PAK 80/81, where he did extremely well againts the IND great spin trio (the greatest spin combinations in test history) & Qadir/Qasim in PAK. King Viv wasn't weak againts spin at all, such batting exploits in those two series makes he thing he would have handled Warne & Murali quite well if he was playing in the 90s/2000s.

Add Underwood to that list of decent spinners Viv took apart (averaged 70+ in tests featuring Underwood).

 

[aussie]

DWTA. I think it had more to do with the pitches back then. Getting accustomed to the heat and crowds benefits the players that visit repeatedly. The players that are visiting here for the first few times are still in the same boat as the players that visited for the first few times back then. Australia isn't exactly Switzerland, and I'm pretty sure they had the know how of adjusting to the heat and humidity back then.

I know you keep calling for a stronger ICC, aussie, but here is one area where they should have just butted out and minded their own business. Leave the pitches alone. There was absolutely no need for them to force their idea of what a good pitch is on the host nation. Homogenisation killed the novelty.

Come again my friend. I'm not really sure what you are getting at here.

 

[aussie]

I am not saying Viv was **** against spin. He was not his commanding self against spinners and that intimidation factor was not to be seen against them. And we know there's a gulf of class between Chandra / Qadir and Murali / Warne. I can ad reverse swing too to the recipe. Another novel art, that Viv was not tested agsinst.

So you are telling me that Viv played fast bowlers and spinners equally well? Yes or No?

I think their is strong possibility he did againts matches vs PAK againts the likes of Imran, Sarfraz & Wasim in the 80s. While maybe also vs Kapil Dev in India also.

 

[Himannv]

Add Underwood to that list of decent spinners Viv took apart (averaged 70+ in tests featuring Underwood).

I believe he played spinners well and scored runs off them. "Took them apart" is pushing it a bit imo. I dont remember that many instances where he really went after them and dominated them like he does with pace bowlers. I somewhat agree with those who said that he was far more dominant against pace bowlers.

I always used to feel that he liked the ball coming on and was a bit more laid back and tried to play himself in a bit against slower bowlers before going after them. There were many occasions where he just defended a full over first before launching an attack and I think it was just to get himself used to the armoury and the pace of the bowler if he felt he needed to check what was coming at him.

 

[robelinda]

Viv was not tested against reverse swing??? I didnt think more garbage could be posted but hey its the internet. I never though so many people would be so desperate on discrediting Viv. Pakistan reverse swung it all through the 80's, in most countries. Heck even in 78/79 Pakistan reverse swung it here in Oz. Viv played rather well vs Pakistan and faced Wasim and Waqar and even Sarfraz at their swinging best. Your argument is not only flawed its plain dog crap. Get some facts will you, plenty of us have actually seen Viv play you know.

 

[weldone]

I have read so much crap here in CW over the years (besides many excellent and insightful posts)...

But I have never seen this many people supporting as big a crap as 'Viv wasn't that intimidating against spinners'. During his best years, he was intimidating against all types of bowlers. If you ask against which type he was more intimidating, that points out his strong point, not his weak one. At his best, the intimidating side of his batting didn't have any weak point.

 

[weldone]

Revelations from this thread:

1. Viv had weakness against quality pace bowling.
2. Viv didn't face the best of bowlers.
3. Viv wasn't dominating against spin.
4. Viv wasn't tested against reverse swing.

Vivian Alexander Richards wasn't much of a batsman then!

 

[Spikey]

don bradman never had to play reverse swing. DUD.

 

[smash84]

Viv was not tested against reverse swing??? I didnt think more garbage could be posted but hey its the internet. I never though so many people would be so desperate on discrediting Viv. Pakistan reverse swung it all through the 80's, in most countries. Heck even in 78/79 Pakistan reverse swung it here in Oz. Viv played rather well vs Pakistan and faced Wasim and Waqar and even Sarfraz at their swinging best. Your argument is not only flawed its plain dog crap. Get some facts will you, plenty of us have actually seen Viv play you know.

You forgot to mention Imran. He was a master of reverse swing himself. In fact he was the one who perfected the technique and passed it on to Wasim and Waqar. And Imran himself claims Viv to be the best he ever bowled to. And Imran bowled against some real greats of the game. Heck he himself was a bowler of outstanding class. Like I mentioned elsewhere that between 1982 and 1992 when Imran was captain (and for a good 48 tests mind you) his bowling average was 19.9 (bowling SR during that time I am not sure but his overall bowling career SR is 53.7). During that time he played 3 test series against Viv. and he once mentioned to Ian Chappell that Viv was quite damn intimidating for the bowler.

And I can tell you Imran is not someone who pays compliments that easily.

 

[robelinda]

Absolutely, Imran was indeed a master at reverse swing, at pretty good pace too. Best all rounder ive ever seen too.

 

[andyc]

Youre on the ball today. I take it youve never encountered sarcasm before? Must be a good rock you live under.

Viv was not tested against reverse swing??? I didnt think more garbage could be posted but hey its the internet. I never though so many people would be so desperate on discrediting Viv. Pakistan reverse swung it all through the 80's, in most countries. Heck even in 78/79 Pakistan reverse swung it here in Oz. Viv played rather well vs Pakistan and faced Wasim and Waqar and even Sarfraz at their swinging best. Your argument is not only flawed its plain dog crap. Get some facts will you, plenty of us have actually seen Viv play you know.

You were specifically asked yesterday to keep the insults out of it, robelinda. Consider this an official warning to cut this sort of stuff out or face a potential ban.