Is Viv Richards an Overrated Test Batsman?

[Indipper]

True.

By the way, can you suggest any site where all the WSC stats are available (match-by-match scorecards and overall records)?

A few matches are missing from cricinfo AFAIK, should check with cricketarchive.

 

[aussie]

DWTA. Viv never face the best pacemen of all time. That gentleman was in his team, and a short bloke was called Marshall. He didn't face the fastest either. Six years after the retirement of Viv there came a tall lanky bowler named Mohammed Zahid, and till he got injured six months later he bowled the quickest stuff cricket world as ever seen, reducing Lara on form to ducking, plodding and weaving.

Viv did scare fast bowlers, but never heard that he scared good spinners like Chandra or Qadir. Would not expect a legendary spinner like Murali or Warne to give a rats arse that Viv terrified fast bowlers if they were bowling to him. The bottom line is Viv naver played a legendary spinner, and his weakness was against spin, and incidentally that was not an era of spin bowling too.

He may not have played a spinner of the Murali, Warne class. But check out his series vs IND 75/76 & vs PAK 80/81, where he did extremely well againts the IND great spin trio (the greatest spin combinations in test history) & Qadir/Qasim in PAK. King Viv wasn't weak againts spin at all, such batting exploits in those two series makes he thing he would have handled Warne & Murali quite well if he was playing in the 90s/2000s.

 

[vcs]

I remember a post from SJS where he wrote that he attended a match in Delhi live and Viv looked terribly scratchy and suspect for the first 50 runs in his innings, went on to make 190 odd, and then scored heavily against India in the WI in the following series.

 

[tooextracool]

Srinath was as good a bowler than Kapil in tests. Kumble simply was unplayable in 90s.

Not sure I agree with this. Srinath was a pretty average bowler for most of the 90s, granted he had his days and on his day his inswinger swung about as much as anyone I've watched, but by and large it was only later in his career when he was actually considered to be a good bowler.

 

[Ikki]

Still, India at home were something else. Arguably, the best attack of the 90s.

 

[vcs]

We were unbeaten in home series in the '90s IIRC but did not play enough Test cricket. From memory, we played 4 Tests against Australia, 3 against England, 3 against SA, 3 against WI, 3 against Pakistan... and the rest against NZ, Zimbabwe and SL who were weaker sides.

 

[tooextracool]

That is very very arguable. They may have been one of the most difficult teams to beat at home in the 90s but Im not sure whether Srinath, Kumble, Prasad and Chauhan/Raju was the best attack in the world in home conditions at the time.

 

[vcs]

That is very very arguable. They may have been one of the most difficult teams to beat at home in the 90s but Im not sure whether Srinath, Kumble, Prasad and Chauhan/Raju was the best attack in the world in home conditions at the time.

Exactly. I think it was a tough place to tour because the novelty factor and the fear of adjusting to the heat, crowds etc. had still not worn off for non-subcontinental players.

 

[Ikki]

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Without minnows, they're #1.

They look pretty damn good here. Make of it what you will. Reckon they were better than what they were in the 80s.

 

[aussie]

Exactly. I think it was a tough place to tour because the novelty factor and the fear of adjusting to the heat, crowds etc. had still not worn off for non-subcontinental players.

Indeed.

 

[G.I.Joe]

DWTA. I think it had more to do with the pitches back then. Getting accustomed to the heat and crowds benefits the players that visit repeatedly. The players that are visiting here for the first few times are still in the same boat as the players that visited for the first few times back then. Australia isn't exactly Switzerland, and I'm pretty sure they had the know how of adjusting to the heat and humidity back then.

I know you keep calling for a stronger ICC, aussie, but here is one area where they should have just butted out and minded their own business. Leave the pitches alone. There was absolutely no need for them to force their idea of what a good pitch is on the host nation. Homogenisation killed the novelty.

 

[shivfan]

There are a number of factors we have to consider....

1) In the 1970s and 1980s, when Viv batted, wickets were a lot more pace-friendly than they are now. For example, Perth, Sabina and Kensington Oval were a pace bowler's dream. Now, they are batting paradises....

2) He batted half of the time in the West Indies, where pace bowlers had the ascendancy. Only Guyana and later Antigua were good for batting. This is in contrast to the subcontinent, where there were a lot of batting strips.

3) You just had to see the way a young Viv took on real pace bowlers on pitches that suited the speedsters to know that there will never be anyone like him again. That's what Imran's talking about....

I recommend a good read of Simon Doull's excellent book 'Pace Like Fire', which was about all the great speedsters of that era. Doull dedicated an entire chapter to Viv, who was, in his opinion, the only batsman of the time who enjoyed taking on real fast bowlers on tracks that helped them.

 

[shivfan]

DWTA. Viv never face the best pacemen of all time. That gentleman was in his team, and a short bloke was called Marshall. He didn't face the fastest either. Six years after the retirement of Viv there came a tall lanky bowler named Mohammed Zahid, and till he got injured six months later he bowled the quickest stuff cricket world as ever seen, reducing Lara on form to ducking, plodding and weaving.

Viv did scare fast bowlers, but never heard that he scared good spinners like Chandra or Qadir. Would not expect a legendary spinner like Murali or Warne to give a rats arse that Viv terrified fast bowlers if they were bowling to him. The bottom line is Viv naver played a legendary spinner, and his weakness was against spin, and incidentally that was not an era of spin bowling too.

I remember this match....

2nd Test: West Indies v Pakistan at Port of Spain, Apr 14-19, 1988 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

Queens Park Oval in those days was a spinner's paradise, and both Viv and Dujon used their feet to hammer Abdul Qadir around the Park.....

Thanks to another important knock by Miandad, Pakistan just hung on for a draw.

 

[weldone]

Amazing entertainer! Intimidating!

Those big jaws like Greek Gods, that heavy bat, those decisive huge feet movements, that high backlift and free swing, those intimidating high-voltage shots against the best of bowlers, that king-like attitude - that's the whole Richards package. I can understand why my dad is a die-hard fan of this man.

He was an absolute champion ODI batsman, the best ever; and by a good margin over Tendulkar.

I don't want to comment on whether he is overrated in tests. I'd only say that even if he's overrated, that's not without any reason ... If people get this viewing pleasure from him, they may be excused for overrating him slightly.

YouTube - Viv Richards

By the way, just out of curiosity, can someone tell me what would his test stats be if all the 5 day matches he played in WSC were considered test matches? Can't find any easy way to calculate that atm, hence asking if someone can help.

 

[Burgey]

That is very very arguable. They may have been one of the most difficult teams to beat at home in the 90s but Im not sure whether Srinath, Kumble, Prasad and Chauhan/Raju was the best attack in the world in home conditions at the time.

I think you can be more definite than that and say there is no way they were. But they were very good at home.

 

[Slifer]

Cant believe the fact that Viv didnt play against his own attack is being used against him. Anyway suffice to say the man is not overrated and come to think of it not really surprised by this thread just realised who started it.

 

[aussie]

Cant believe the fact that Viv didnt play against his own attack is being used against him. Anyway suffice to say the man is not overrated and come to think of it not really surprised by this thread just realised who started it.

Yea its ridiculous. Although id say most CW posters wouldn't use that againts him.

 

[smash84]

Cant believe the fact that Viv didnt play against his own attack is being used against him. Anyway suffice to say the man is not overrated and come to think of it not really surprised by this thread just realised who started it.

LOL.........

Yea its ridiculous. Although id say most CW posters wouldn't use that againts him.

True

 

[Sanz]

Viv did scare fast bowlers, but never heard that he scared good spinners like Chandra or Qadir. Would not expect a legendary spinner like Murali or Warne to give a rats arse that Viv terrified fast bowlers if they were bowling to him. The bottom line is Viv naver played a legendary spinner, and his weakness was against spin, and incidentally that was not an era of spin bowling too.

What is the basis for such a comment ? I really don't know if Spinners were scared of Viv or not but to say that his weakness was against Spinners is really silly and baseless

 

[Migara]

I remember this match....

2nd Test: West Indies v Pakistan at Port of Spain, Apr 14-19, 1988 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

Queens Park Oval in those days was a spinner's paradise, and both Viv and Dujon used their feet to hammer Abdul Qadir around the Park.....

Thanks to another important knock by Miandad, Pakistan just hung on for a draw.

I am not saying Viv was **** against spin. He was not his commanding self against spinners and that intimidation factor was not to be seen against them. And we know there's a gulf of class between Chandra / Qadir and Murali / Warne. I can ad reverse swing too to the recipe. Another novel art, that Viv was not tested agsinst.

What is the basis for such a comment ? I really don't know if Spinners were scared of Viv or not but to say that his weakness was against Spinners is really silly and baseless

So you are telling me that Viv played fast bowlers and spinners equally well? Yes or No?