Is Viv Richards an Overrated Test Batsman?

[Xuhaib]

You say that with a certainty it doesn't warrant, tbh. Zahid was super fast, no doubt but quicker than Thommo? I don't think we'll ever know for sure.

I have spoken to guys like Shoaib Mohammad and Rashid Latif both reckon Zahid was quicker by a yard to Akhtar so that should put him in Thommo's range I reckon.

 

[Migara]

You say that with a certainty it doesn't warrant, tbh. Zahid was super fast, no doubt but quicker than Thommo? I don't think we'll ever know for sure.

They way many posters say that thommo was the quickest with certainity. No queries on their claims?

 

[Top_Cat]

They way many posters say that thommo was the quickest with certainity. No queries on their claims?

How is this relevant to anything?

 

[Migara]

I have spoken to guys like Shoaib Mohammad and Rashid Latif both reckon Zahid was quicker by a yard to Akhtar so that should put him in Thommo's range I reckon.

Akthar, Lee and Tait were in Thommos range. I don't believe Zahid to be any slower than any of them if not faster. Zahid beat every batsmen he bowled to with pace (and these players were West Indian and Aussie, who were brought up against quick stuff) in his short career. Thommo, Akthar, Lee and Tait beat the most, but not everyone. Zahid injured himself in SL, so he did not have chance to bowl any length. But talking to SL batsmen like Aravinda, he has said that Zahid was the quikest thing that he ever faced. And Aravinda has faced Marshall, Ambrose, Donald, Lee, Waqar and Akthar in their prime (and set some of them to the cleaners too).

 

[Migara]

How is this relevant to anything?

Relevance is that only one school of thought is questioned and other is accepted. Because it fits the argument of some. Every superlative description has to be taken with a pinch of salt, and that pinch should be same for everyone.

 

[Top_Cat]

Relevance is that only one school of thought is questioned and other is accepted. Because it fits the argument of some. Every superlative description has to be taken with a pinch of salt, and that pinch should be same for everyone.

Again, what's the point? I'm saying that I don't think you can say with certainty Zahid was quicker than Thommo. What other posters have said is completely irrelevant.

 

[Migara]

Again, what's the point? I'm saying that I don't think you can say with certainty Zahid was quicker than Thommo. What other posters have said is completely irrelevant.

Again the point is why only my post is targeted.

 

[Top_Cat]

No-one's targeting you. Geez.

While we're talking posting patterns, you've got a massive persecution complex. It permeates just about every point you make.

 

[Prince EWS]

Can think of a Burgey post or two that might be relevant about now.

 

[robelinda]

Threw a tantrum would be more accurate.

How much footage is there of umpring calls from back in the day? Every team moans about every other team, but the home team defends their umpires from every other team (though some calls are louder than others e.g. Pakistan at home, NZ vs WI in the early 70s, and Ian Smith claims Crowe rarely got out lbw in domestic cricket).

Who has videos to prove this stuff? Genuinely curious.

Oh that would be me! 29000 cricket dvd's in my collection, have just about every WI test from 1976 onwards, and lots more from 1960 but not every test. Yep i'm mad.

Cannot believe the stupidity of this thread, I just cannot stand these 'stat posters' on forums. Viv was absolutely awesome. Better yet, he didnt shut up shop and become an accumulator of runs ( like most batsmen as they get old), he attacked right to the end, hooking and pulling with no helmet well in to the 1990's, and those guys deserve not just respect but complete adoration. I'd put Ponting almost in that bracket, at no stage has become defensive, still attacking all the way. I wish Sachin continued to attack like he did up until the late 90's, seems captaincy at that point made him defensive, Viv and Ponting only got more attacking.

That test in 1990 in the WI when Devon Malcolm decided to just kill Viv was awesome, Viv didnt get any big scores in that few years of his career but he played some cracking attacking innings, that Devon assault was riveting viewing, much like Shoaib Akthar vs Ponting at Perth in 1999, boy was that excellent.

Oh, and Viv faced Jeff Thomson at his fiery best in 75/76, but didnt do so well. Read Viv's autobiography, one of the best you'll ever read, his insight is incredible.

 

[Migara]

No-one's targeting you. Geez. While we're talking posting patterns, you've got a massive persecution complex. It permeates just about every point you make.

Now targeting the poster. My! this is getting worse.

 

[Migara]

No point in continuing this. I am outta here.

 

[robelinda]

From accounts I've seen from Rod Marsh, Lillee, etc. the big problem with the NZ umps of the 80's wasn't that they were biased but that they were incompetent. True or not, that was the perception.

As for the Aussie umpires, eh who knows. I do remember a lot of carping by the Indian side in '92 about some decisions they got. Remember Channel Nein having to do a special highlights package showing the poor decisions against both teams. Got the feeling it was just to shut bloody Gavaskar up because he was pissing and moaning even more then usual but went very quiet from that point.

Yes there were quite a few shockers in that 91/92 test series, so too the summer before when England toured. Alderman got some ridiculous lbw's. The indians just kept being hit on the pads, it was too easy.

 

[Ikki]

AWTA.

And against a very high quality bowling attack as well. I guess while judging the records of players of that era, their performances in WSC should be kept in mind. Suddenly, if anyone has any doubt about the greatness of players like Richards or Lillee, it won't do him any harm to take WSC stats into perspective as well.

Or Chappell. He was rather awesome there too. I agree with you. I generally have the WSC in mind when rating these players. I am sure the players who played in them, and who thought it the toughest cricket they'd ever played, would also have it in mind.

 

[weldone]

Or Chappell. He was rather awesome there too. I agree with you. I generally have the WSC in mind when rating these players. I am sure the players who played in them, and who thought it the toughest cricket they'd ever played, would also have it in mind.

True.

By the way, can you suggest any site where all the WSC stats are available (match-by-match scorecards and overall records)?

 

[weldone]

Again the point is why only my post is targeted.

This is hillarious. When a police catches a thief (not calling you a thief mate, btw ), does the thief demand that he should be caught only after all the other thieves have been caught?

Or, are you demanding that if Top_Cat wants to write against a certain post by a poster, he needs to write against all the similar posts by all the posters?

It's irrelevant whether what others have said is right or not, what is relevant in this context is whether what you've said is right or not.

 

[robelinda]

True.

By the way, can you suggest any site where all the WSC stats are available (match-by-match scorecards and overall records)?

Cricinfo has it, surely you've looked there???? Scorecards and Statistics | Cricket News | World Series Cricket | Cricinfo.com

Other Matches 1977-78

Other Matches, ICC Associates, Youth Tours, Women's, Miscellaneous (1978-79)

 

[weldone]

Cricinfo has it, surely you've looked there????

Other Matches 1977-78

Other Matches, ICC Associates, Youth Tours, Women's, Miscellaneous (1978-79)

Thanks. I hope that contains all the matches.

And what about overall WSC stats (who played how many matches, scored how many aggregate runs, averaged how much etc etc)? Do I get such lists somewhere?

 

[robelinda]

Sorry your majesty you'll have to click on the links to get the info, i'm not going to cut and paste it here. Geez. Its not hard to look up cricinfo yourself.

 

[andyc]

Let's try to keep it civil here, robelinda.

Cannot believe the stupidity of this thread, I just cannot stand these 'stat posters' on forums. Viv was absolutely awesome. Better yet, he didnt shut up shop and become an accumulator of runs ( like most batsmen as they get old), he attacked right to the end, hooking and pulling with no helmet well in to the 1990's, and those guys deserve not just respect but complete adoration. I'd put Ponting almost in that bracket, at no stage has become defensive, still attacking all the way. I wish Sachin continued to attack like he did up until the late 90's, seems captaincy at that point made him defensive, Viv and Ponting only got more attacking.

That test in 1990 in the WI when Devon Malcolm decided to just kill Viv was awesome, Viv didnt get any big scores in that few years of his career but he played some cracking attacking innings, that Devon assault was riveting viewing, much like Shoaib Akthar vs Ponting at Perth in 1999, boy was that excellent.

Understand the annoyance over seeing list after list of statistics, but I don't quite understand rating the bloke highly because he kept attacking, especially when slowing it down a bit and accumulating runs may have lead to more scores. The advantage of statistics is that they don't lie; a century is a century, regardless if it's off 120 balls or 240.