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Is Ashwin an ATG spinner / player?

honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
subshakerz said:
Ashwin has had at least 2-3 opportunities when the away match was set up for him to rip through the opposition on 4th or 5th day and he didnt deliver. So I cant blame Kohli for thinking Ashwins bowling may not be as critical as it would if he were really ATG level.
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I am sure you know more than Virat's actual words on what he thinks of Ashwin.


Anyways, its immaterial. He is ATVG, just like Imran. But Ashwin has a chance to be an ATG, sadly cant say that about the Pak PM.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
honestbharani said:
Nah. You said Ash is not an ATG coz 2 players were better than him. I just listed three who are better than Imran. 4 if you include Kallis.

And if Virat is the judge of ATG, I am sure he considers Ashwin ATG. He has actually already said that. :p
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You misunderstand. I said Ashwin is not Murali/Warne level. I would put them and maybe OReilly and Grimmet at ATG level. I already said that ATG spinners are rarer. Whereas ATG pacers are more common, maybe a dozen or so, and they have three spots. And Imran generally is seen as the best allrounder after Sobers.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
subshakerz said:
You misunderstand. I said Ashwin is not Murali/Warne level. I would put them and maybe OReilly and Grimmet at ATG level. I already said that ATG spinners are rarer. Whereas ATG pacers are more common, maybe a dozen or so, and they have three spots. And Imran generally is seen as the best allrounder after Sobers.
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Not really. I am just pointing out it is a stupid point to say that ATGs are only those who can make an All Time World XI.
 
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subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
h_hurricane said:
Ashwin is in many ways the Waqar Younis of spin bowling, or here or thereabouts. Waqar had an unreal strike rate for a quick bowler for his era and could be unstoppable in some conditions. Same goes for Ashwin, great strike rate for a spinner and could run through lineups in favorable conditions.

Both have similar holes in their career. Waqar couldn't get it right in Australia or India. Ashwin hasn't in South Africa but has put up good performances in Australia though his overall record there is not that good. He could improve them though, given chances.

Ashwin certainly is a better cricketer than Waqar, given he could bat really well and could make significant series changing contributions. And that makes him an ATG cricketer imo, though it is arguable if he is an ATG spinner.
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Fair comparison. Both bowlers are greats, just not ATG.
 
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subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
ma1978 said:
bythis definition

Ricky Ponting
Allan Border
Greg Chapprll
Joel Garner
Etc

are not all ATG because none of those guys could credibly be considered for an ATGxi given competition.

that’s nuts
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Huh? Why wouldnt they be considered? They would all be shortlisted.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
subshakerz said:
No, those who make the shortlist for consideration.
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Not what you said.

Anyways, I think Ash, like Anderson, is a great bowler who can retire as an ATG just as a bowler alone.

And as an overall test cricketer, he is definitely ATG as others have pointed out.

FWIW, I rate Waqar an ATG bowler. He brought something unique to the table and while injuries robbed us of him at his peak for longer, he still had a great career with a few years of ATGness, so I do rate him as an ATG.
 
M

ma1978

International Debutant
Would Ponting or Border really be shortlisted when you have one spot that’s Bradman and Lara, Tendulkar, Richards, Smith, Hammond, Kallis (bc of bowling) all clearly ahead.

the shortlist is not a thing
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
ma1978 said:
Would Ponting or Border really be shortlisted when you have one spot that’s Bradman and Lara, Tendulkar, Richards, Smith, Hammond, Kallis (bc of bowling) all clearly ahead.

the shortlist is not a thing
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His shortlist is based on his bias. He thinks its a thing and makes it smart. Its neither.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
ma1978 said:
Would Ponting or Border really be shortlisted when you have one spot that’s Bradman and Lara, Tendulkar, Richards, Smith, Hammond, Kallis (bc of bowling) all clearly ahead.

the shortlist is not a thing
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I don't think Lara or Hammond are clearly ahead of Ponting or Border. But the point is that they are all highest quality enough to be compared with each other. IN each era there are some cricketers who rise to the best of their era based on both reputation and record, and these form a small group of elite cricketers.
 
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subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
There is still selective bias, sure. But my quick answer for why I would consider Lara an ATG and not Dravid is because I think the former merits consideration in an ATG XI while Dravid would clearly be out of place in one. There are only around 15 or so bats that may make it on that shortlist.
 
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_00_deathscar

International Regular
subshakerz said:
There is still selective bias, sure. But my quick answer for why I would consider Lara an ATG and not Dravid is because I think the former merits consideration in an ATG XI while Dravid would clearly be out of place in one. There are only around 15 or so bats that may make it on that shortlist.
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Right - so the only issue here is your classification of ATG differs from others.

Plenty of others would consider Dravid and ATG, a lower rung one at best.
 
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