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Is Ashwin an ATG spinner / player?

honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I think Ash is a great on the verge of being an ATG. But I still think Kumble is better. Ash can overtake him though.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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Ashwin had the best series any finger spinner has had in Australia in ages. He was also pretty great in the Adelaide win on the previous tour before he got hurt. Jadeja's brings a ton of overall value to the team but the idea that he's a better bowler can only be arrived at if you're a dumbass contrarian no offense.

Kumble's only higher up on the list of great spinners because of longevity. Ashwin has him beat on almost everything else afaic. Among off spinners, there's only been two clearly better ones in history : Murali and laker. Ashwin's got a serious argument for third. He's merely an Atvg bowler but add his batting and you've maybe got an atg cricketer. The one test in the recent Australia tour he wasn't great with the ball, he played a match saving innings. Legend.
 
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subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
OverratedSanity said:
Ashwin had the best series any finger spinner has had in Australia in ages. He was also pretty great in the Adelaide win on the previous tour before he got hurt. Jadeja's brings a ton of overall value to the team but the idea that he's a better bowler can only be arrived at if you're a dumbass contrarian no offense.

Kumble's only higher up on the list of great spinners because of longevity. Ashwin has him beat on almost everything else afaic. Among off spinners, there's only been two clearly better ones in history : Murali and laker. Ashwin's got a serious argument for third. He's merely an Atvg bowler but add his batting and you've maybe got an atg cricketer. The one test in the recent Australia tour he wasn't great with the ball, he played a match saving innings. Legend.
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Kumble has a few 5fers in SENA that Ashwin doesnt.
 
Migara

Migara

International Coach
Kumble lost something from 1993-4 onwards. He was deadly even of SAF wickets and was very accurate. Playing on front foot was difficult due to pace and bounce and playing back ineveitable meant you'd miss his "rocket ball". Don't know whether someone has asked him to turn the ball around that time.
 
X

Xix2565

International Regular
Flem274* said:
No.

He gets hidden in SENA because he isn't good enough to make the team, and the results support the decision.

His England record is good, his Australian one is bad, and while you could argue his sample size of four tests in NZ and SA (two of the strongest sides India face and definitely up there in harsh tours) is not fair, there's a reason he has been dropped in favour of Jadeja in those games.

Ashwin is firmly an ATVG. You can let him loose in the right place and he will make your team near unbeatable, but outside of those circumstances he struggles to be a test standard bowler.

Jadeja is the better bowler, better batsman and obviously better fielder plus he's a lot more fun and less of a whiner so this isn't much of a contest tbh.

I don't mind horses for courses as much as perhaps the mainstream does but I still think to be truly great you need to be useful in most conditions.
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No need to praise Jadeja just to try to **** on Ashwin because you can't handle the ethical supremacy when he gets going. Both are greats who've made India virtually invincible at home.

As for not playing in England this year, you could've made a reasonable argument that he should've played vs one of the quicks being rotated in and out just because he's that good.
 
B

Bolo.

International Captain
anil1405 said:
One of the reasons being India now has a potent seam attack unlike being 'Kumble dependent' back in his days.
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IDGIF about 5 wicket hauls, but this is a piece of why Ashwins overall average is better than Kumble's.

Probably less so than the worldwide utter ineptitude against spin from the start of Ashwin's career. I have always been a massive Ashwin fan watching him bowl, and I never liked Kumble. And more than most on the site, I tend to ignore my impressions in favour of statistics, which put Ashwin way ahead, clearly. But, considering the eras, I think they are really close as bowlers. I struggle to pick between them.

Ashwin the better player on account of batting though, despite the fact that Kumble could hold a bat. I dont think he is an ATG bowler, cos I weigh away performances heavily, but he is a beast of a player... much more comfortable calling him an ATG than Kumble.
 
sunilz

sunilz

International Regular
If Ashwin is ATG , then Anderson is also one as a bowler.

I feel Ashwin can be termed as ATG player or very near to it but he isn't ATG bowler yet.
 
X

Xix2565

International Regular
Can Ashwin, Anderson and Kumble not just be ATGs all at the same time? Feels weird to waffle a bit based on looks and away records.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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This is since the end of the 2015 Aus tour. Pretty amazing away numbers for a spinner

1638765279541.png

Kumble had a great stretch late in his career where he was awesome everywhere too, Ashwin will surpass him easily if he keeps this up for another few years. I have my doubts on Ashwin's fitness levels though, that's always been an issue even when he's been bowling well.
 
TheJediBrah

TheJediBrah

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ATVG for sure, don't know about ATG. Maybe though. Feel like if we open it up to Ashwin though then you open ATG up to a **** load of other players

depends how exclusive you want to make it.
 
S

subshakerz

Hall of Fame Member
OverratedSanity said:
This is since the end of the 2015 Aus tour. Pretty amazing away numbers for a spinner

View attachment 30016

Kumble had a great stretch late in his career where he was awesome everywhere too, Ashwin will surpass him easily if he keeps this up for another few years. I have my doubts on Ashwin's fitness levels though, that's always been an issue even when he's been bowling well.
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In SENA, he has zero matchwinning spells or something close. Hardly enough to qualify for an ATG. And Kumble wasn't one either.
 
ankitj

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Absolutely the best spin bowler India produced. He would have improved his SENA record too if Kohli wasn't being a **** and benching him. Had a great tour of Australia and did well in the game against NZ in England. Has very high levels of skills with respect to picking the right pace for a pitch and variations in the angles to deceive batsmen. Champion bowler.

ATG? Almost there. Definitely greater than Kumble.
 
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