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Indian Domestic Season 2011/2012
- Thread starter nsniks
- Start date
Outswinger@Pace
International 12th Man
Agree with the points Arjun's made in response.
Ganguly's spot still isn't filled properly because of poor planning. If players are selected for test teams based on their ODI/T20 performances and star appeal, I am not surprised that it has come to this. Hopefully, past mistakes would serve as useful lessons for the present and the future.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
It may apply with decently strong bowling attacks of four, but India's isn't. India's four-man bowling attack is weak. They need that extra option. Not only do the overs get you extra wickets, which are worth gold dust for this side, but also reduce the over workload on the frontline bowlers. It also makes better use of every place in the side- if your team needs a specialist batsman at six to score big runs, the top five is fragile and a few names need to change.
All of those teams have had depth in both batting and bowling, with South Africa and New Zealand being clear examples. Even Australia have five bowlers, although one opens the batting with a very brisk strike rate, and South Africa have a number three batsman who can bowl at least thirty overs an innings. Can you get even one Indian batsman (including the many prospects) to bowl thirty overs an innings? You can't.
Maybe, but given Dhoni's repeated persistence with Yuvraj as a bowler, which eventually came good in the World Cup, it cannot be ruled out. In games abroad, when the pitches suit the seamers, a batsman who can bowl more than a bit of spin should be in the XI to partner your frontline spinner.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
I think youth bias is also a factor. The old one, Badrinath, has played very little, but many matches are shared by Yuvraj, Raina and Pujara, all younger (or sitting on ODI/T20 figures). Still, six is not a nice place for a specialist batsman to begin his career. He can't make the most of a good game for batting, and has to rescue the team in case there's trouble. Imagine the Indian team that's lost four wickets for no more than 250, and your promising young batsman walks out. Hardly reassuring. Failure being more likely, unless someone gives this youngster a lot of time to prove himself, it may harm him too- and bring about ODI bad habits in the Test side.
Cevno
Hall of Fame Member
Sehwag can do the job if required though.
And bowling in ODI's is a lot different to tests. Sehwag > Yuvraj in tests in anycase, despite Yuvraj being better and successful in ODI's.
Can't see Yuvraj's bowling coming too much in tests tbh.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
Harbhajan Singh still struggles to get wickets in Ranji. Less so Irfan Pathan, who's taken five wickets an innings for the second time, and is second on the wickets tally behind Appanna. A Baroda/Karnataka clash will decide who wins the Ranji Trophy. The third (and last) bowler to take two five-fors is Manpreet Gony, and only five others (Chawla, Vikas Mishra, Yo Mahesh, Sangwan, Unadkat) have a five-wicket haul in the top ten. This may put on hold Harbhajan's international return for some time, but some other bowlers are in with a shout.
Abhishek Nayar is leading the runs with 434 in two games. Now in case you feel the urge to complain of flat decks and weak bowling, let's not forget, you seemed to be a little happier when Jadeja got his triple ton- Nayar has been consistent, while Jadeja, largely a batsman who can bowl a bit, did little since. All Nayar needs is the token five-wicket haul and he may be (at the very least) an ODI prospect again. Bengal's prolific run-getter Manoj Tiwary is so far one short of 400, and has also maintained consistency. His fifty-to-hundred conversion rate is amazing. Rohit Sharma is closing in on Jadeja, with 339 runs to Bonny Boy's 360, Mr Style is now making a serious case for his place in the Test side. Hopefully the curse of six does not eat up his Test career, as he's good enough to bat at four for India consistently. Talking of six, not too many have been hit, and batsmen have preferred to ride along the ground so far.
Baroda, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Mumbai look strong. Mumbai had it really tough against Karnataka, a powerhouse in the Ranji Trophy. Their batting seems in good hands, but bowling is weak and needs to be cranked up a little- this should be Zaheer's comeback venture. The weak bowling sets them back in the chase. Tamil Nadu seem to be doing well without both Ashwin and Badri, and Balaji leading the attack adds some strength. Baroda have some solidity with the Pathans and Rayudu, though Munaf is still missing. Karnataka are likely to have Uthappa, Vinay, Pandey, Aravind, Mithun and Appanna for the whole season, which will take them all the way. Last year's champions Rajasthan struggle to take twenty wickets, and may somehow avoid the bottom two spots because they've seen off the two strong sides of the group. Delhi, Railways, Orissa and MP are in trouble and need to get their operations sorted out quickly- two of them are likely to drop.
Going back to that Yo Mahesh/Abu Nechim comparison, while Yo Mahesh has slowed down lately, he's still chipping wickets in the Elite league. Abu Nechim struggles to get a wicket now, and he's not been impressive this season- an average of 33 with one five-for.
Abhishek Nayar is leading the runs with 434 in two games. Now in case you feel the urge to complain of flat decks and weak bowling, let's not forget, you seemed to be a little happier when Jadeja got his triple ton- Nayar has been consistent, while Jadeja, largely a batsman who can bowl a bit, did little since. All Nayar needs is the token five-wicket haul and he may be (at the very least) an ODI prospect again. Bengal's prolific run-getter Manoj Tiwary is so far one short of 400, and has also maintained consistency. His fifty-to-hundred conversion rate is amazing. Rohit Sharma is closing in on Jadeja, with 339 runs to Bonny Boy's 360, Mr Style is now making a serious case for his place in the Test side. Hopefully the curse of six does not eat up his Test career, as he's good enough to bat at four for India consistently. Talking of six, not too many have been hit, and batsmen have preferred to ride along the ground so far.
Baroda, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Mumbai look strong. Mumbai had it really tough against Karnataka, a powerhouse in the Ranji Trophy. Their batting seems in good hands, but bowling is weak and needs to be cranked up a little- this should be Zaheer's comeback venture. The weak bowling sets them back in the chase. Tamil Nadu seem to be doing well without both Ashwin and Badri, and Balaji leading the attack adds some strength. Baroda have some solidity with the Pathans and Rayudu, though Munaf is still missing. Karnataka are likely to have Uthappa, Vinay, Pandey, Aravind, Mithun and Appanna for the whole season, which will take them all the way. Last year's champions Rajasthan struggle to take twenty wickets, and may somehow avoid the bottom two spots because they've seen off the two strong sides of the group. Delhi, Railways, Orissa and MP are in trouble and need to get their operations sorted out quickly- two of them are likely to drop.
Going back to that Yo Mahesh/Abu Nechim comparison, while Yo Mahesh has slowed down lately, he's still chipping wickets in the Elite league. Abu Nechim struggles to get a wicket now, and he's not been impressive this season- an average of 33 with one five-for.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
Sehwag can bowl two or three overs, but twenty or thirty? Innings after innings? Not possible. He has to open the batting, get big runs, stay fit and not risk any more injuries, especially when he's never bowled this much bar nine matches out of 91. Yuvraj (or any other six) is an extra, a passenger, a journeyman and a filler, and can be used to bowl loads of overs. You don't lose much if that six does it, but you may lose your top batsman if Sehwag does.
Furball
Evil Scotsman
This. Pick your best 6 bats, your 4 best bowlers and your keeper. Bits and pieces players shouldb't be playing at number 6 in Test cricket.
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
Fair, it's not fashionable to support Yuvraj for six, but honestly, a specialist batsman at six is an excess, especially when the team's bowling is a weak suit, and the batting, a lot stronger.
Not a bits-and-pieces player, but a frontline batsman who can bowl. Someone who's good enough for the top six and can turn his arm over for thirty overs- I don't think I'd want to have one of my frontline bowlers sending down more than 18 overs an innings. Indian bowlers have sent down over 27 an innings, which is too much for these blokes, who have too many matches to play. They sweat it out and bowl themselves dry match after match, and deserve some support from the top six- at least from the dust-gatherer at six.
Or at least one bowler who can score a few runs to back up the top six and build partnerships. For this team, a bowler who can get runs. All fingers point to Irfan, who's just recovered from an injury that kept him out of a season, but Praveen and Ashwin are adequate replacements- and both are among India's top bowlers.
Fair, don't pick a bowler-who-can-bat at six. Pick Dhoni. Nothing wrong in that. Gets you as much as Yuvraj. Or any newcomer you want to bat at six.
All of Rohit/Rahane/Raina/Kohli/Tiwary/Yuvraj/WhatHaveYou should instead aim higher and stake a claim for three, four and five, instead of the thankless six.
Not a bits-and-pieces player, but a frontline batsman who can bowl. Someone who's good enough for the top six and can turn his arm over for thirty overs- I don't think I'd want to have one of my frontline bowlers sending down more than 18 overs an innings. Indian bowlers have sent down over 27 an innings, which is too much for these blokes, who have too many matches to play. They sweat it out and bowl themselves dry match after match, and deserve some support from the top six- at least from the dust-gatherer at six.
Or at least one bowler who can score a few runs to back up the top six and build partnerships. For this team, a bowler who can get runs. All fingers point to Irfan, who's just recovered from an injury that kept him out of a season, but Praveen and Ashwin are adequate replacements- and both are among India's top bowlers.
Fair, don't pick a bowler-who-can-bat at six. Pick Dhoni. Nothing wrong in that. Gets you as much as Yuvraj. Or any newcomer you want to bat at six.
All of Rohit/Rahane/Raina/Kohli/Tiwary/Yuvraj/WhatHaveYou should instead aim higher and stake a claim for three, four and five, instead of the thankless six.
Daemon
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I get what you're saying but Yuvraj has been proven to be simply not good enough.
You said that number six is a thankless position and it's extremely difficult to play well there; doesn't that make a bigger case for a specialist coming in at six, instead of an inferior batsmen who is destined to fail? We're primarily trying to win test matches here, helping players ease into the test side comes second.
You said that number six is a thankless position and it's extremely difficult to play well there; doesn't that make a bigger case for a specialist coming in at six, instead of an inferior batsmen who is destined to fail? We're primarily trying to win test matches here, helping players ease into the test side comes second.
Cevno
Hall of Fame Member
Delhi 138/5 (36.0 ov, M Manhas 27*, P Bisht 43*, IK Pathan 4/63) - Tea | Live Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
Irfan doing pretty well again.
Orissa 4/1 (1.0 ov, Natraj Behera 0*, N Behera 4*, Z Khan 1/4) - Tea | Live Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
ZAK has picked up one wicket already too.
Irfan doing pretty well again.
Orissa 4/1 (1.0 ov, Natraj Behera 0*, N Behera 4*, Z Khan 1/4) - Tea | Live Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo
ZAK has picked up one wicket already too.
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
Reports on ICF was that in one of his first return games, his speed was quite low, around 120kph. This concerns me barely at all. I'm sure his speed will come up to 130kph as he gets overs under the belt. It is also not like he is taking 'the odd wicket' either, he is bloody cleaning up. I'd like to see how a full season goes for him but I am worried he'll either get selected or injured before that can happen.