• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Indian domestic season 2005-06

viktor

State Vice-Captain
Deja moo said:
Knowing the rules beforehand does diddly-squat for you when you play attacking cricket for the straight win and the opposition play solely for the first-innings lead and the draw.
Could you please explain how you came up with the theory that the Railways were playing to win? Suppose for the sake of arguement that they were; well, then isn't it your fault if you play to a win can't force it AND end up losing the first innings points??? Playing to win is a good thing but you should have enough sense to protect your interests.
I'm not suggesting the first innings lead system is ideal. But to claim that the Railways were relegated because of this system and to call it a, and I quote, "black, black day", is stupid at best and unprintable at worst.
 
Last edited:

adharcric

International Coach
Arjun said:
It's a dark, dark day in the history of the Ranji trophy. Railways, who were champions (or at least finalists in a drawn match), have been relegated to the Plate division. This is one team with four national team contenders, including two all-rounders, given how much the Indian team needs one. Their opening batsman was as good as those considered for a national call-up, but never got a fair try, and with this team relegated, they may have to wait a whole season to get back in the picture. Worse, they only lost one match, while Delhi lost three and still stay on. This first-innings lead has caused excess damage and should be scrapped. Immediately!
seriously, its not at all a "dark, dark day" ... jp yadav & murali kartik wont suffer from being relegated, they'll still make it to the duleep squads that matter. as for pagnis, he's not good enough to be even a reserve for team india. maybe bangar deserved more opportunities, but his time is gone now and if yadav doesnt get a chance, forget about bangar getting one ... the selectors won't even take a glimpse at him

maybe delhi doesnt deserve their spot and has a poor team, but what about shikhar dhawan? plus, sehwag, gambhir and nehra need to play top competition at times like this ahead of something like a pakistan series, not plate division teams. railways belongs in the elite group, but this isnt the tragedy you're making it out to be.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Couldnt go to the Bengal vs Tamil Nadu match but some notable things -

On Ganguly vs Kapoor

Kapoor got the better of Ganguly after a gritty 88 from Ganguly on the last day and a bit of attitude from him.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060107/asp/sports/story_5691707.asp

Meanwhile Badani after a superb 150 and a 50 (he always seems to play well at the Eden whenever I have noticed) showed his dismay at constantly being ignored (Tamil Nadu players do get rough treatment. :( )

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060107/asp/sports/story_5691653.asp

Also, well performed Jesuraj with 11 wickets in the match!
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Arjun said:
Worse, they only lost one match, while Delhi lost three and still stay on.


They had a sub standard pitch versus Delhi and lost that match. They were already in a hole conceding first inning leads in previous matches - which find them in the precarious position that they are in.

Digging themselves deeper with that substandard pitch didnt make sense.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Pratyush said:
They had a sub standard pitch versus Delhi and lost that match. They were already in a hole conceding first inning leads in previous matches - which find them in the precarious position that they are in.

Digging themselves deeper with that substandard pitch didnt make sense.
Railways only conceded first-innings leads in previous matches, but lost just one. Delhi, on the other hand, lost three matches. The system needs attacking cricket, with teams playing for wins and not draws. Just because they prepared a sub-standard pitch for one match doesn't mean that they don't deserve to be in the Elite league while teams that lose three matches or more still stay on.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
honestbharani said:
You cannot blame the system for what happened. After all, the same system helped them win the Ranji last year.
Even if they had to share the title last year, it would be shocking to have them relegated, while teams that lack balance (Delhi), quality (Gujarat) and cohesion (Bengal) still stay in the top tier.
 

viktor

State Vice-Captain
Arjun said:
Even if they had to share the title last year, it would be shocking to have them relegated, while teams that lack balance (Delhi), quality (Gujarat) and cohesion (Bengal) still stay in the top tier.

C',mon, these other teams must be doing something right. also like HB said, they won under the same system last year.
If you don't like the system, fine, but don't use this to argue the case.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
viktor said:
C',mon, these other teams must be doing something right. also like HB said, they won under the same system last year.
If you don't like the system, fine, but don't use this to argue the case.
Whn a team that's won one match and lost one gets relegated, while another that wins one and loses three still stays in the top drawer, and another that wins one and loses two hold on. That shows that there's something fishy about this first-innings lead. Besides, if you read last season's thread, I didn't support Bangar's idea of batting on and on to hold on a first-innigns lead, then going through the motions to finish the match without bowling Punjab out. Without that rule, they would still share the trophy with Punjab, and they could have stayed on this season. As for Delhi, they were lucky because of one moment of madness too many by Railways, while they were average or terrible in every other match. Gujarat came crashing down to earth against Mumbai. Bengal often rode on good performances by Ganguly or Bose or Lahiri or Gavaskar Jr, but never performed as a team– one down, all down. Railways play like a team and support each other well, and also have some versatile players, unlike Delhi, whose players are very one-dimenrional and their all-rounders have forgotten one skill.
 

viktor

State Vice-Captain
Arjun said:
Whn a team that's won one match and lost one gets relegated, while another that wins one and loses three still stays in the top drawer, and another that wins one and loses two hold on. That shows that there's something fishy about this first-innings lead. Besides, if you read last season's thread, I didn't support Bangar's idea of batting on and on to hold on a first-innigns lead, then going through the motions to finish the match without bowling Punjab out. Without that rule, they would still share the trophy with Punjab, and they could have stayed on this season. As for Delhi, they were lucky because of one moment of madness too many by Railways, while they were average or terrible in every other match. Gujarat came crashing down to earth against Mumbai. Bengal often rode on good performances by Ganguly or Bose or Lahiri or Gavaskar Jr, but never performed as a team– one down, all down. Railways play like a team and support each other well, and also have some versatile players, unlike Delhi, whose players are very one-dimenrional and their all-rounders have forgotten one skill.
:ph34r: 8-) :cool: :huh: :blink: :D :p :) :happy:
edit: a friend of mine did that...apologies
 
Last edited:

Deja moo

International Captain
viktor said:
Could you please explain how you came up with the theory that the Railways were playing to win? Suppose for the sake of arguement that they were; well, then isn't it your fault if you play to a win can't force it AND end up losing the first innings points??? Playing to win is a good thing but you should have enough sense to protect your interests.
I'm not suggesting the first innings lead system is ideal. But to claim that the Railways were relegated because of this system and to call it a, and I quote, "black, black day", is stupid at best and unprintable at worst.
Because theres a difference between playing to have enough time to bowl your opposition out twice, and aiming just to bat the first innings well irrespective of whether you have time enough to force a win later or not. The system made for unentertaining cricket.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Ranji Trophy goes slow
by Harsha Bhogle
By the time this month ends, Rahul Dravid will have played 9 tests against Pakistan in 22 months. You need to go really really far to figure out how long it has taken him to play his last 9 games for Karnataka given that in the last 60 months he has played for them once. And that is one better than Sachin Tendulkar for Mumbai.

You can go further. In the last five years Anil Kumble has played two games for Karnataka, Harbhajan Singh two for Punjab and Virender Sehwag 4 for Delhi. So there you are, cut and dry, the reason our Ranji Trophy is dull, uncompetitive and, this year, somnolent, is because the stars don't play. Wrong. The reason the Ranji Trophy has been dead this year is that the teams are boring the daylights out of each other. When we were younger, we used to have a competition called slow cycling where you had to go from point A to point B as slowly as possible without putting your foot down or falling off the bike. That was a million times more interesting than the slow cricket we have had this year.


I have just been to cricinfo to check out on a few games and at the time of writing this piece Gujarat have made 200 from 93 overs in response to which Mumbai galloped to 207 from 97. Maharashtra made 237 from 111.4 overs and in reply Railways were 98 for 5 in 54. Punjab made 316 in 136.4 overs and Andhra battled along to 185-2 from 76. Both Punjab and Gujarat batting first made less than 200 on day 1.


Batsmen must be getting paid by the minute these days with points taken off for runs made! Witness this one for example, probably the saddest way to play a cricket match. Bengal play Gujarat and make 462 in 198 overs, that's over an hour into the third day of a four day match. Presumably they were hoping to knock them over twice in the remaining time, assuming they wanted a result, and, continuing in denial mode, Gujarat made 371 in 160 overs. Nobody got any points and it was the equivalent of shooing off a spectator who might have wandered close by. In fact Bengal must have thought they had done pretty well in terms of run-rate (2.33) having significantly improved it from their previous match against Karnataka when they managed 335 from 151 overs at 2.21 per over.


Railways and Delhi went the other extreme, finishing off their game in two days with Railways batting first bowled out for 77; and when Delhi batted Murali Kartik took 8-40. It must have been some pitch there had it been visible.


It is only when you play positively on good pitches that you get good cricketers. There are two elements to it– good pitches and positive cricket. By the look of it, it is a combination that is eluding us and the BCCI don't seem to have noticed it either for I haven't heard anyone say that six rounds into this year's Ranji Trophy we have had some pathetic cricket.


There's more trouble. Lakshmipathy Balaji hasn't been playing (a fact that seems to have escaped some demonstrators in Chennai!), and we have seen virtually nothing of VRV Singh either. Ashish Nehra has vanished and seriously Munaf Patel remains the only contender for a new ball bowler's slot. It begs a debate. It is not only good pitches that we need but good physios and trainers for Ranji Trophy teams as well. I know some beginning has been made there but clearly more is needed. Riches don't always translate into intent.


And here are a couple of points to mull over. Mohammad Kaif, whose exclusion evoked much sympathy, is only playing his 9th game for Uttar Pradesh in five years, has a first class average of 37 and has five centuries only. Does he need to do more in the longer game? I think he is a better player than those numbers but like a mirror, numbers never lie.
Good article. Exactly what I have said a few times.
  • First-innings lead points have driven teams to amass large totals, sacrificing victory most of the time. He mentioned Bengal v/s Gujarat, and when Baroda could have easily won against Services, they just chose to make a massive but slow score of 447. Not surprisingly, the match ended in a draw. It didn't seem to matter, even if they could win and leapfrog ahead of Haryana and UP, both in contention for a semifinal berth.
  • Physiotheraists are badly needed in Ranji teams as much as they are in the national team. Imagine, a national team contender like VR Singh is out injured before he makes his India debut.
  • Mohammed Kaif is probably the most over-rated Test contender in India. He doesn't look a double centurion, and his FC average says just that. Not to mention, he lacks the power play of a Justin Kemp or Kevin Pietersen or even Yuvraj Singh, and he doesn't bowl at all. From across the Haryana/UP border, one Joginder Sharma bats like him and also opens the bowling for his team, but he's not considered a Test prospect. Nor is Amol Mazumdar, a Mumbai stalwart who averages over 50 and has a few doubles to his credit. Is it not strange?
 
Last edited:

TIF

U19 Debutant
Railways, still have some chance to retain their place in the elite group if they can win the next match. That will have Railways on 8 points.

A poor-poor and a sub-standard pitch at the Karnail Singh stadium is never going to help the Railways cause. That pitch has footmarks all over and lot of cracks are present on the pitch making playing cricket very difficult. Also, facilities around the stadium arent very good either and the busy Delhi area of Paharganj surrounds the stadium.

The pitch at Karnail Singh stadium is unfit to play even club cricket, let alone Ranji trophy cricket. If you dont believe me, come over to Delhi and I will show you the under-prepared sub-standard pitch of Karnail Singh stadium.
 

viktor

State Vice-Captain
Deja moo said:
Because theres a difference between playing to have enough time to bowl your opposition out twice, and aiming just to bat the first innings well irrespective of whether you have time enough to force a win later or not. The system made for unentertaining cricket.
like i said, am not claiming the system is ideal; but it is there,the Railways know that, have tried to exploit it in the past so why is it a bl-bl day if they get relegated?

ps: which one of my questions were you trying to answer? i' confused :wacko:
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
viktor said:
like i said, am not claiming the system is ideal; but it is there,the Railways know that, have tried to exploit it in the past so why is it a bl-bl day if they get relegated?

ps: which one of my questions were you trying to answer? i' confused :wacko:
viktor said:
Railways know that, have tried to exploit it in the past so why is it a bl-bl day if they get relegated?
Because Delhi have lost not one, not two, but three matches, but still have a chance of staying in the league, while Railways just lose one match and may get relegated. Clearly, something fishy is going on, to add to the unentertaining (and negative) cricket. This season, Mumbai have exploited that rule repeatedly and that's kept them at the top spot.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Arjun said:
Good article. Exactly what I have said a few times.
  • First-innings lead points have driven teams to amass large totals, sacrificing victory most of the time. He mentioned Bengal v/s Gujarat, and when Baroda could have easily won against Services, they just chose to make a massive but slow score of 447. Not surprisingly, the match ended in a draw. It didn't seem to matter, even if they could win and leapfrog ahead of Haryana and UP, both in contention for a semifinal berth.
  • Physiotheraists are badly needed in Ranji teams as much as they are in the national team. Imagine, a national team contender like VR Singh is out injured before he makes his India debut.
  • Mohammed Kaif is probably the most over-rated Test contender in India. He doesn't look a double centurion, and his FC average says just that. Not to mention, he lacks the power play of a Justin Kemp or Kevin Pietersen or even Yuvraj Singh, and he doesn't bowl at all. From across the Haryana/UP border, one Joginder Sharma bats like him and also opens the bowling for his team, but he's not considered a Test prospect. Nor is Amol Mazumdar, a Mumbai stalwart who averages over 50 and has a few doubles to his credit. Is it not strange?
It was a good article from Harsha Bhogle, but pray, tell me where have been the demonstrators in Chennai? I live in this city and I am yet to come across one demonstration about Balaji.
 

adharcric

International Coach
well, ganguly is a much bigger cricketing icon than balaji. also, kolkatan fans are on the whole more, uhh, passionate than some others.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
adharcric said:
well, ganguly is a much bigger cricketing icon than balaji. also, kolkatan fans are on the whole more, uhh, passionate than some others.
No, what I meant was that Bhogle said there were demontrations in Chennai about Balaji (however big it was) and I am saying that I haven't seen or heard of a single one yet, and I LIVE in Chennai.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
honestbharani said:
It was a good article from Harsha Bhogle, but pray, tell me where have been the demonstrators in Chennai? I live in this city and I am yet to come across one demonstration about Balaji.
That was a relatively muted demonstration, which came in the sports pages of Times of India. I have forgotten the name of that group, but they're unhappy about Dinesh Karthik and Badani being left out as well. Balaji doesn't care, since he's still recovering from injury, and most fans must be aware of that.
 

Top