India vs. Pakistan test series

[thehellraiser]

reply to neil pickup

faisal iqbal, naveed latif and asim kamal are still in contention for places in the pakistani sqaud

the others are simply not good enough. even if they were groomed for a number of years they still would not have performed to the level expected.

u forget razzaq, azhar mahmood,sami as well, they were given relatively early debuts and performed at the highest level.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Yeah, I over-generalised on that list because I couldn't be bothered to do any more detailed research - still it's hardly more often than not, is it?

 

[thehellraiser]

kamran akmal will be the future wicket keeper.the guy has pretty decent wicket keeping qualities and bats pretty well as well.he will defianately keep wickets after moin retires.
people like shahid nazir and mohd akram have been unsuccesful because they have been kept out of the side by other great pacers.there has always been tremendous competition, as far as pace bowling is concerned, in the pakistan team.so the demis of these players can be attributed to the fact that they were lesser players than the great akram,younis,shoaib.
one mor thing,u frgot aaquib jawed.this guy was also given an early debutand performed admirably for pakistan especially during the 92 world cup.
so neil my friend........your list gets thinner and thinner.

and one more thing.this is always gonna happen,players will be tried and if they dont perform they will be dropped.it happens every where.....if martin love cant get in the aussie side does not mean that he is a bad player, or are u trying to say that players like martin are also not up to it.

 

[Swervy]

.
one mor thing,u frgot aaquib jawed.this guy was also given an early debutand performed admirably for pakistan especially during the 92 world cup.
so neil my friend........your list gets thinner and thinner.

and one more thing.this is always gonna happen,players will be tried and if they dont perform they will be dropped.it happens every where.....if martin love cant get in the aussie side does not mean that he is a bad player, or are u trying to say that players like martin are also not up to it.

Are you talking about Aaquib javid there...he was crap..and lets not forget his successes (few and far between from what i can remember)were ceratinly under a cloud of ball tampering allegations

 

[thehellraiser]

ball tampering
yeah thats what they used to cal reverse swing when no one but the pakistanis knew how do reverse swing it.
now its not ball tampering anymore.....hahahahahaaha....its reverse swing

and check out the highlights of the 92 world cup.....then tell me that aaquib jawed was crap.....the guy was an integral part of the team that won the cup.one of the first along with wasim and waqar who could utilise the reverse swing(or ball tampering as it was caled)lol.hahaha

 

[Swervy]

ball tampering
yeah thats what they used to cal reverse swing when no one but the pakistanis knew how do reverse swing it.
now its not ball tampering anymore.....hahahahahaaha....its reverse swing

and check out the highlights of the 92 world cup.....then tell me that aaquib jawed was crap.....the guy was an integral part of the team that won the cup.one of the first along with wasim and waqar who could utilise the reverse swing(or ball tampering as it was caled)lol.hahaha

well they were certainly the stories that were flying around back then...and i think there was quite a lot of evidence to suggest something was up, and yeah people do reverse swing it now (and they did before then as well)but i think players have learnt that you arent going to get away with ball tampering anymore,and you will notice the amount of reverse swing generated these days is nowhere near like that from 12 years ago...Aqib from what i remember was a pretty average quickish bowler, yeah he might have played well for a bit, but 20 odd tests in 10 years doesnt really count as a success for the policy of blooding younger players does it

 

[thehellraiser]

rumours flying back then......thats what they wre rumours.....and i just told u because the world dnt have a clue what reverse swing was ,people started calling it ball teamperin. now that they know what it is ....it seems to be ok....

wasim akramsaid in an interview referring to the england tour in 1992...that the used to be 200 for 2 and the 250 all out.they called it ball tampering because they did not know what it was. now that they have found out ....its not ball tampering any more....its reverse swing.....so my friend.....get over it.....hahahaahah

 

[Swervy]

rumours flying back then......thats what they wre rumours.....and i just told u because the world dnt have a clue what reverse swing was ,people started calling it ball teamperin. now that they know what it is ....it seems to be ok....

wasim akramsaid in an interview referring to the england tour in 1992...that the used to be 200 for 2 and the 250 all out.they called it ball tampering because they did not know what it was. now that they have found out ....its not ball tampering any more....its reverse swing.....so my friend.....get over it.....hahahaahah

sorry..how many times have you just repeated the same thing there...hey I have gotten over it.

but reverse swing was known before 92 by the way.

i am sorry but having watched quite a lot of Pakistan back then, there was something not quire right about what was going on. I seem to remember Richie benaud even commenting on the abuse the Pakistani bowlers seemed to be dishing out on one side of the ball.

And of course let us not forget Imran khans bottle top stuff, used to generate extra reverse swing.

I just dont understand how even the best reverse swing bowlers of today cannot get half the swing an average bowler like aaqib could get back then

 

[marc71178]

wasim akramsaid in an interview referring to the england tour in 1992...that the used to be 200 for 2 and the 250 all out.they called it ball tampering because they did not know what it was. now that they have found out ....its not ball tampering any more....its reverse swing.....so my friend.....get over it.....hahahaahah

Is that the one when the ball was changed - if so, I don't think it can have been 100% within the laws.

 

[thehellraiser]

no .....wasim was talking about the general england tour in 92........and what do u mean by 100% within the laws

 

[Swervy]

no .....wasim was talking about the general england tour in 92........and what do u mean by 100% within the laws

well there was a controversy about the ball being changed during an interval,i think it was something to do with the shambolic state the ball had got into before hand, ie. not by natural causes

 

[thehellraiser]

well..as far as i remember ....pakistan still won the match...perhaps more winging from the england team

 

[marc71178]

Except this was the umpires...

 

[Swervy]

well..as far as i remember ....pakistan still won the match...perhaps more winging from the england team

not that it bothers me that much..I am Australian after all

 

[yohanna]

i am sorry but having watched quite a lot of Pakistan back then, there was something not quire right about what was going on. I seem to remember Richie benaud even commenting on the abuse the Pakistani bowlers seemed to be dishing out on one side of the ball. And of course let us not forget Imran khans bottle top stuff, used to generate extra reverse swing.

I just dont understand how even the best reverse swing bowlers of today cannot get half the swing an average bowler like aaqib could get back then.

You can't accuse someone like that on the basis of rumors and stories. For ur kind info, Imran said that he used bottle top in just one county match, now to say that Imran used to generate extra reveserse swing coz of bottle top is absurd. And by the way what is EXTRA reverse swing? Pakistanis always were good in reverse swing coz of playing condition in Pakistan favors that, even today Pakistanis are best at that.

And to say that since A Javed was a average bowler therefore its impossible for someone like him to reverse swing the ball that well is ridiculous. The best reverse swing bowlers doesn't have to be the best bowlers in the world, just to give you an example Indian captain Ganguly is said to have rated a below average Indian bowler in Banger as the best reverse swing bowler in India!!

The whole logic here is stupid, if bowlers today aren't getting as much reverse swing as they used to get it before then that doesn't necessarily means that something was definately wrong earlier. Interestingly Akhter do get plently of reverse swing even these days, thats a different thing that he isn't consistent .

 

[marc71178]

Pakistanis always were good in reverse swing coz of playing condition in Pakistan favors that

So good that they can get it when no other players can? ...

 

[yohanna]

So good that they can get it when no other players can? ...

Thats the thing, just because Pakistanis were best at it some others tried to discredit them by saying thatr since no one else can perform like them therefore they must be cheating!

 

[Swervy]

You can't accuse someone like that on the basis of rumors and stories. For ur kind info, Imran said that he used bottle top in just one county match, now to say that Imran used to generate extra reveserse swing coz of bottle top is absurd. And by the way what is EXTRA reverse swing? Pakistanis always were good in reverse swing coz of playing condition in Pakistan favors that, even today Pakistanis are best at that.

And to say that since A Javed was a average bowler therefore its impossible for someone like him to reverse swing the ball that well is ridiculous. The best reverse swing bowlers doesn't have to be the best bowlers in the world, just to give you an example Indian captain Ganguly is said to have rated a below average Indian bowler in Banger as the best reverse swing bowler in India!!

The whole logic here is stupid, if bowlers today aren't getting as much reverse swing as they used to get it before then that doesn't necessarily means that something was definately wrong earlier. Interestingly Akhter do get plently of reverse swing even these days, thats a different thing that he isn't consistent .

say what you want mate...in my opinion (and again in many other peoples opinions), something was up.

I never said it was impossible for an average bowler to reverse swing....in fact a poor bowler can generate reverse swing if he is quick enough...(I gather that pace is a requirement for reverse swing due to aerodynamics) ..

Ok I misunderstood about the bottle top..I was under the impression that Imran didnt actually think there was that much wrong with using a bottle top to gain an unfair advantage

 

[Swervy]

Thats the thing, just because Pakistanis were best at it some others tried to discredit them by saying thatr since no one else can perform like them therefore they must be cheating!

i think there has been some pretty damning evidence to suggest something was not right

 

[Choora]

I just dont understand how even the best reverse swing bowlers of today cannot get half the swing an average bowler like aaqib could get back then

And who are those best reverse swing bowlerS of today???

Mate, Akram (the master of reverse swing) is gone, and so are Waqar, Aaquib and others.Right now we only have a couple or so left.The best of them is Akhter but Akhter is no Waseem or Waqar.