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India vs. Pakistan test series
- Thread starter mikka_a
- Start date
Where are the evidence then?
That Eng-Pak series was pretty ugly, umpires throwing sweaters at players , and some players were going totally out of control. I don't want to comment on that series but that fact is that both teams had a lot to complain about others in that series.
Yeah i agree it must be pretty amazing.Now when tomorrow Shane warne is gone and if suppose we don't get another great leggie for some time then we should indeed question Warne's credibility (of whatever is left)Swervy said:
Interestingly Abdul Qadir (who played along with those reverse swing bowlers) is said to have revived the leg spin bowling( as leg spin was a dead department in '80's. I wonder how Qadir did that when no other wasn't able to do since a long time?
Swervy
International Captain
has there ever been any thought that Qadir or Warne have messed with the ball...no i dont think they have.Choora said:
Now with the 'reverse swingers' there has been a lot of questions asked about this.
It is a known fact that the Pakistani bowlers experimented with all kinds of tricks to generate reverse swing during net sessions (bottle tops etc)..I have to ask myself why would they do that then???
It is a fact also that the state of the balls around then when reverse swing was at its peak got into unbeleivable states,and that was normally with Waqar and chums bowling..i mean after 40overs or so, there were times when the shiney side looked pretty good, and the rough side looked like it had been bowled about 300 overs..how did that happen????
Now if that was done through legitimate methods, then fine....but I cant see and have never seen how a ball could be roughed up in a way that has happened in the past.
How can you base ur argument on one incident? sorry mate, the guy who was caught with dust in his pocket wasn't Pakistani, he was an Englishmen. Cricketers from NZ,Eng and India have been caught along with Pak for ball tampering.To say that only Pakistani cricketers do it shows complete ignorance on ur part.
300 overs...LOL , nice try.
If you can't see it happen then its ur problem.Since that ill fated '92 series umpires kept a close eyes on Pakistani bowlers and they were not able to see any "wrong doing".Waqar was caught tampering with the ball with his fingernails, and i must say he must have had "iron nails " if he ever tampered a ball to look like 300 overs old.
Waseem was NEVER caught, nor was Aquib javed ever reported for that, so to accuse them of any wrong doing is highly unfair.
warrioryohannan
U19 Cricketer
Swervy said:
This is just the kind of silly argument some guy was having on another website about chucking, Akhter and Brett Lee were his target.His point was that since no other bowler in the world has ever reached a speed of 100K then how come these two bowlers have achieve that? Soi since others can't bowl express fast(probably in any decade) these two surely must be chuckers!
Bouncer
State Regular
I remember one of the very famous comment made by Waqar Younis regarding reverse swing he said back in early 90 when only Pakistani bowlers knew how to reverse the ball it used to be called as cheating, but now when everybody knows about it, its an art. How fair is that
Does anybody dissagree with him.
Does anybody dissagree with him.
warrioryohannan
U19 Cricketer
The conditions in subcontinent differs dramatically from that in Aus and England. In SC , the ball get wornout very fast, and its complete rubbish to say that it USED t happen in the past because even in the recent Pak-Bangladesh and Pak-SA series, the ball became rough very quickly.There were umpires on the ground, on the television and lots of cameras were focussed on the players, now if someone was using any artificial means to tamper the ball (as u imagined) and got away then he must have been a magician.Swervy said:
warrioryohannan
U19 Cricketer
Maybe you didn't see the match in Sharjah, the spell by Akhter was a fantastic display of reverse swing.Swervy said:
warrioryohannan
U19 Cricketer
Bouncer said:
Not atall, i completely agree with him. Basically reverse swing was unknown to anyone besides Pak before '90's.Initially some Cricket nation labelled the whole thing as "cheating" but when they learned how to do it they acknowledge it as an art.
thehellraiser
School Boy/Girl Captain
swervy.swervy.swervy.
you have got to be kidding.
just because the pakistanis could reverse swing it,just because they wre whooping every team that they played against,just because ignorant people like yourself wer not willing to admit that it was an art and not ball tampering,it does not mean .i repeat my friend it does not mean that it was ball tamperin.
and you keep on talking about he evidence.....where is it
show me the evidence
you cant because there is none
i absolutely agree with choora and yohana that because no one can now swing it like akram ,waqar does not indicate any wrongdoings.
would you have said the same thing if the aussie bowlers were the one swinging it and not the pakistanis.
no ......hahahahahahaha.....i dont think so........
and who is the bowlere amongst the current crop that u consider to be the one to reverse swing it.no name comes to mind although i do remember in oneof the england matches that gough got it to reverse swing it a bit.and the commentators highlighted that fact.does this mean that he had tampered with the bowl
and if u say that no one but the pakistanis has been able to do it........then why did the english bowlers not reverse swing it as much when atherton had the dirt in his pocket ........remember that .........that was tampering as well.....and still not as much reverse swing.....hahahahahaa
in a sense you are a funny guy my friend
and i dont mean to offend you
you have got to be kidding.
just because the pakistanis could reverse swing it,just because they wre whooping every team that they played against,just because ignorant people like yourself wer not willing to admit that it was an art and not ball tampering,it does not mean .i repeat my friend it does not mean that it was ball tamperin.
and you keep on talking about he evidence.....where is it
show me the evidence
you cant because there is none
i absolutely agree with choora and yohana that because no one can now swing it like akram ,waqar does not indicate any wrongdoings.
would you have said the same thing if the aussie bowlers were the one swinging it and not the pakistanis.
no ......hahahahahahaha.....i dont think so........
and who is the bowlere amongst the current crop that u consider to be the one to reverse swing it.no name comes to mind although i do remember in oneof the england matches that gough got it to reverse swing it a bit.and the commentators highlighted that fact.does this mean that he had tampered with the bowl
and if u say that no one but the pakistanis has been able to do it........then why did the english bowlers not reverse swing it as much when atherton had the dirt in his pocket ........remember that .........that was tampering as well.....and still not as much reverse swing.....hahahahahaa
in a sense you are a funny guy my friend
and i dont mean to offend you
Is tampering with the ball the only form of cheating ?Swervy said:
We all know that Warne had taken drugs before a match and he served a ban for it. Now think this way, had Akram ever caught taking banned drugs then we would have seens posts like
"we all know that Akram used to take anabolic drugs before matches, no wonder he was so successful" !
He took a diuretic, which is a banned drug as after taking anabolic seroids(performance inhancing drugs) sports men takes a diuretic to mask doping test!Swervy said:
Why did you think he was banned for such a period? Just because he was taking a drug for which he was visiting rest room every other minute??
Now what was the actual story for which warne took the meds, noone knows, Warne claims that he was just being a perfect mamma's boy.
My point was that had Akram ever caught taking a banned drug and had served a ban then i think many would have discredited his achievements.I mean here you would had a clear evidence, and a ban do signify something.
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Swervy
International Captain
right ok...i see your point...but was Warne banned for taking a performance enhancing drug????......NO.Choora said:
You may make an assumption that he did it to mask any steroids he may have taken...thats up to you, that is your opinion.(Although how much an effect steroids would have on a leg spin bowler..i dont know..hardly any i would guess). It is my opinion that something was up when reverse swing was at its peak (I dont care what anyone says, no-one since has come close to swinging the ball as much and as late as the Pakistani bowlers did then,and I have to question why in my head)....it obviously was completely legitimate in your opinion.
We have a difference in opinion on this and we wont back down on it...so lets not pursue it any further.
But you didnt answer my question..why is it that you automatically think that if Akram had been tested positive for some sort of drug, many people would have discredited him?
No, only because we don't really know what he actually did, his story was however totally comical.He was banned for taking a drug that conceal the fact that the person has been taking anabolic steroid.Noone can say for sure that Warne didn't take anabolic steroids, that would be like mocking the Anti dope committe recomendations.Swervy said:
If a fast bowler had been caught taking banned dugs, thereby masking the anti doping results, people would surely have questioned his achievement.
Lets agree to disagree on RS.Bowlers like Akram,Warne and Waqar are once in a generation players, one has to understand that it will take a while before we will see any bowler matching their class.
thehellraiser
School Boy/Girl Captain
swervy mate....what are u actually on about
u mean its okay for warne to take drugs......and just because the pakistani bowlers were reverse swinging the ball more that any one .....u cal it cheating
u should be given the comedian of the year award
u mean its okay for warne to take drugs......and just because the pakistani bowlers were reverse swinging the ball more that any one .....u cal it cheating
u should be given the comedian of the year award