Hayden calls subcontinental batsmen 'selfish'

[Slow Love™]

Yo , its just one simple example of what I wanted to say . Obviously which team does'nt wanna have Shoaib in their side . Any ways this example can prove me right and kill this stupid topic and continue onwards.
http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7574&page=1&pp=15

I'm not quite with you on how that thread proves you right, but I agree that this is a stupid topic.

 

[marc71178]

So how that got turned into the argument that he was particularly aiming to score the 200 in the UAE game, I have no idea. Jumping to conclusions come to mind....

For crying out loud - it comes out 2 days before he plays the UAE - a blind man could see what he was talking about.

Let's face it, had he gone on and made 200 in the UAE game, you'd all be saying how clever he was for predicting it.

Because he got a duck, you decide he wasn't meaning that game.

 

[Swervy]

Certainly, you are defending Hayden. And for god's sake, drop the "insider info" thing... It makes me laugh every time you bring it up, and I keep imagining Hayden in camo' gear, with his ear cupped outside John Wright's hotel room, or bugging Dorairajan's samosas.

the inside info comment was a throwaway comment made ages ago, I havent even mentioned it other than in I think one post.

Slow Love..do you play the game at all. If you did you would know that you can pick up quite alot about a team by just listening to whats going on in the field...if you find that your fantasies are satisfied by thinking of Hayden in camo gear, then thats up to you..dont blame me

 

[FRAZ]

Yeah, I know. I always found Ranatunga's comments to be particularly insightful (especially when he called Warne useless before the recent Sri Lanka tour, and when he ridiculed Aussies for being convicts), 'cause like, he's played international cricket, and we haven't.

Listen what ever Ranatunga said was a taunt and we all know that . What ever hayden said is'nt wrong and thats a fact . Ranatunga answered a bad question in a bad manner thats about it .
Hayden is'nt sarcastic in this regard and infact he has given a glimmer of hope for the Subcontinent teams that thats what they should'nt do , If they want to challenge Aussies no 1 position .
I have respect for Ranatunga and he was the man , but what ever he said was nt regarding cricket and we all could see that and he answered a bad call from some one .
And Hayden is right for the cricket cause ..

 

[Swervy]

This is very rich coming from you.
An over-reaction, eh ? You were foremost among those Aussie/English supporters who were trying to convince us all that Sehwag was definitely talking about going for a 200 in a game against the UAE, despite the fact that in his interview he spoke in completely general terms.

You're so full of **** Swervy.

so heres throwing that **** right back at you Dogboy...go have a look back at that thread, I think I posted about three times in a thread 150 long,and I hardly said anything there...so to call me foremost in that debate, is a bit daft..i really wasnt bothered what he said to be honest.

 

[Deja moo]

I remember In a forum called "Maurice Odumbe banned " , I just happened to say that The mafia is strong in Mumbai and it should be noticed then in the reply I got so much that I cant imagine and imagine from Which coutry's fans. Pathetic . I am really ashamed .

Ok Fraz , could you be any more obvious in your bias ?

I hate to go OTT , but since you brought it up , let me say that despite most bookies being from India , the police have time and again stressed that the "mafia"( your words , not mine. Iam not into Italian stereotyping) , recieves their funding from Dawood Ibrahim , who lives in Karachi. Despite a decade of attempts by the Indian police , the Pakistani Govt refuses to extradite him ( he is wanted for the 1994 blasts in Mumbai and mnay extortion rackets too). They even refuse to acknowlege his presence in Karachi , and are even rumoured to have sponsored his plastic surgery , which would make it impossible to ever catch him , given that he has no fingerprints on record.

Without his funding , the bookies would not thrive in the manner they do now.

 

[FRAZ]

Bad is bad no matter its in Pakistan or in India .
I guess you have'nt understood any thing . I dont say that Pakistan is saint or Aussies are angels . In my view Saints are saints and angels are angels no matter where they are . Pakistan did this ,Pakistan did that . I dont care . bad is bad . Thats what I am trying to tell that Why you guys take every thing personally and if some one even says something which is off India then all of you gather around that person and start dissing him /her .
I was just PI$$ed at Bhaji and now you are trying to become bhaji of bhaji . man you just answered what ever I was trying to explain that you guys cant just take criticism . I dont say that Indian cricketers are'nt my favourites some of them like Dravid , Manjrekar and Gawasker are my all time favourites . But I also dont want to admitt that Nehra is better than Mcgrath .
And these were all of you guys who were saying that India should'nt visit Pakistan because they are gonna kill the Indian players. And I guess they got the slap on their faces when they saw the hospitality . Thing is to take criticism with a broad mind .

 

[Slow Love™]

the inside info comment was a throwaway comment made ages ago, I havent even mentioned it other than in I think one post.

I was directly responding to your comment, "you never know, he may have overheard someone in the Indian team or managemnent or whatever say something". You've harped on this repeatedly.

Slow Love..do you play the game at all. If you did you would know that you can pick up quite alot about a team by just listening to whats going on in the field...if you find that your fantasies are satisfied by thinking of Hayden in camo gear, then thats up to you..dont blame me

I used to play the game - but life events meant I haven't played for about 12 years. I just think you're adding a level of unnecessary subterfuge (or pursuit of a smoking gun, like Tendulkar saying to Laxman "screw the win, let's both get centuries" in the middle of the pitch) to what is obviously an effort to continue the process of attempting to psychologically intimidate the opposition before an important tournament/series.

I don't have a huge issue with that, because, well, why the hell not? If it works, it works, if it doesn't - I guess it doesn't. But his generalisation about all subcontinental teams, is a stupid comment (which you yourself conceded, before defending the fact that he's not a public speaker). As are some of the arguments posed in this thread in Hayden's defence - including many of which keep mistakenly insisting that Hayden didn't say something that, in fact, he did.

 

[maxpower]

this thread has gone south should be locked.
btw ppl why use **** be creative spell it differently, don't make me use my imagination.

 

[Slow Love™]

Listen what ever Ranatunga said was a taunt and we all know that . What ever hayden said is'nt wrong and thats a fact . Ranatunga answered a bad question in a bad manner thats about it .

Hayden is doing exactly the same thing. My point is, just the fact that somebody's an international cricketer doesn't make everything they say about the game intelligent and/or honest.

 

[FRAZ]

this thread has gone south should be locked.
btw ppl why use **** be creative spell it differently, don't make me use my imagination.

I just changed Four stars to Pi$$ ..........................Happy ........ Enjoy man .

 

[Slow Love™]

Oh, and Swervy, I DO blame you for those fantasies.

 

[FRAZ]

Hayden is doing exactly the same thing. My point is, just the fact that somebody's an international cricketer doesn't make everything they say about the game intelligent and/or honest.

But that is the reality and It was in my mind too and I have also expressed it in some of my initial posts I mean when I joined CW ..

 

[Swervy]

I was directly responding to your comment, "you never know, he may have overheard someone in the Indian team or managemnent or whatever say something". You've harped on this repeatedly..

I wasnt aware that I was harping on about it that much...all I am saying is that you dont know,Sanz doesnt know and I dont know whether this could be the case

I used to play the game - but life events meant I haven't played for about 12 years. I just think you're adding a level of unnecessary subterfuge (or pursuit of a smoking gun, like Tendulkar saying to Laxman "screw the win, let's both get centuries" in the middle of the pitch) to what is obviously an effort to continue the process of attempting to psychologically intimidate the opposition before an important tournament/series.

I don't have a huge issue with that, because, well, why the hell not? If it works, it works, if it doesn't - I guess it doesn't. But his generalisation about all subcontinental teams, is a stupid comment (which you yourself conceded, before defending the fact that he's not a public speaker). As are some of the arguments posed in this thread in Hayden's defence - including many of which keep mistakenly insisting that Hayden didn't say something that, in fact, he did.

as I said yeah I concede the point that maybe he should have worded it better..I dont think he really meant that all sub continent players are at it, I think he was hinting that in his opinion (and indeed it might not be his true opinion, he might have said it to stir the crap up..we wont know unless he makes a further comment on it) there is a problem in these teams whereby some players may be thinking like this.

I am sure many of us have said things before which, in hindsight, we may well have worded them differently.

I am reminded of the infamous occassion when John Lennon said that the Beatles were bigger than Jesus Christ ...now Lennon was a pretty articulate chap, but becase of the way he spoke in everyday usage, what he said came over all wrong,and that could have cost him his career and indeed his life..all because he said what he said in a way that not everyone liked.

To be honest, I suspect that hayden is merely trying to wind the Indian players up..but as I have repeatedly said, it would take a pretty narrow minded person to completely dismiss a comment like this as completely out of hand

 

[Deja moo]

I was just PI$$ed at Bhaji and now you are trying to become bhaji of bhaji . man you just answered what ever I was trying to explain that you guys cant just take criticism .

Fraz , it is simply a waste of time to react to flame bait from new single digit post count members. and if you do want to reply to him , please leave the rest of us Inians from your posts. React to his post as the ranting of an individual , not as the collective view of a nation.Do not attempt to paint all Indians with one brush , and then say that we cant take criticism , when the point we are actually protesting is your generalization .

I dont say that Indian cricketers are'nt my favourites some of them like Dravid , Manjrekar and Gawasker are my all time favourites . But I also dont want to admitt that Nehra is better than Mcgrath .

No one aske you to admit that. It would be stupid of anyone to do so.

And these were all of you guys who were saying that India should'nt visit Pakistan because they are gonna kill the Indian players. And I guess they got the slap on their faces when they saw the hospitality . Thing is to take criticism with a broad mind .

Fraz , when a bomb explodes right in front of the hotel where the Kiwis were lodged , when daily sectarian violence is routine in Karachi , when relations between India and Pakistan arent exactly in the pink of health , how can you not justify the Indians having apprehensions about touring Pakistan ?You talk about taking criticism with a broad mind , what stopped you from taking the above mentioned (an extremely valid) criticism with a broad mind ?

The hospitality did come as a pleasant surprise , but calling it a "slap in the face" as you have really exposes your flawed ,narrow minded and banal thought process.

 

[FRAZ]

Fraz , it is simply a waste of time to react to flame bait from new single digit post count members. and if you do want to reply to him , please leave the rest of us Inians from your posts. React to his post as the ranting of an individual , not as the collective view of a nation.Do not attempt to paint all Indians with one brush , and then say that we cant take criticism , when the point we are actually protesting is your generalization .



No one aske you to admit that. It would be stupid of anyone to do so.



Fraz , when a bomb explodes right in front of the hotel where the Kiwis were lodged , when daily sectarian violence is routine in Karachi , when relations between India and Pakistan arent exactly in the pink of health , how can you not justify the Indians having apprehensions about touring Pakistan ?You talk about taking criticism with a broad mind , what stopped you from taking the above mentioned (an extremely valid) criticism with a broad mind ?

The hospitality did come as a pleasant surprise , but calling it a "slap in the face" as you have really exposes your flawed ,narrow minded and banal thought process.

Deja lol , Forget it dude . Why should'nt I admitt that Manjrekar is my fav commentator or a past cricketer , Hmmm you think I just became a saint right now thn go and check my previous posts that the same thing I have said before and Slap on the face is bad and Offensive but I am not saying about all of them but to the guys who criticized the Indian visit . And as far as you are saying about the Kiwi thing then Crap Crap Crap Crap ..........
None of the business and just a pathetic argument .
Once I remembered that Air India was blown away in Canada but I am still living here . Twin Towers fell But people are still visiting there even I did . India had Khalistan problem but teams still visit there . Japan had Atomic SHitt But people are still visiting there . And now the series has gone by and with a beauty so now people are talking about Kiwi thing . Any ways . Enjoy dude . Dont just over ride some beautiful Argument that I made .
And coming to the topic " Do you agree Hayden Is right or not" I do .
And do you ? definately not lol because Fraz agrees .. lol enjoy dude

 

[Deja moo]

Deja lol , Forget it dude . Why should'nt I admitt that Manjrekar is my fav commentator or a past cricketer , Hmmm you think I just became a saint right now thn go and check my previous posts that the same thing I have said before and Slap on the face is bad and Offensive but I am not saying about all of them but to the guys who criticized the Indian visit . And as far as you are saying about the Kiwi thing then Crap Crap Crap Crap ..........
None of the business and just a pathetic argument .
Once I remembered that Air India was blown away in Canada but I am still living here . Twin Towers fell But people are still visiting there even I did . India had Khalistan problem but teams still visit there . Japan had Atomic SHitt But people are still visiting there . And now the series has gone by and with a beauty so now people are talking about Kiwi thing . Any ways . Enjoy dude . Dont just over ride some beautiful Argument that I made .
And coming to the topic " Do you agree Hayden Is right or not" I do .
And do you ? definately not lol because Fraz agrees .. lol enjoy dude

Ok , I cant argue if you cant be rational.

 

[FRAZ]

Ok , I cant argue if you cant be rational.

Deja , What If Fraz was in Indian team .. Make it Rational enough for you guy . Just joked in the previous post and still you did'nt pick that up . Pathetic

 

[Son Of Coco]

Hayden was even more sweeping than that. He said "pretty much all subcontinental teams are like that".



I completely agree with you - unfortunately that's the main body of the argument being mounted to prove that Hayden has a point. The reason he's addressing it is because it was brought up as evidence of Hayden's claims. So surely he's perfectly entitled to argue the point.

You guys (particularly Swervy, who has no right to comment on how obsessional or reactionary Sanz is, given just how much time he's devoted to this thread) aren't aware of how unfair you're being. Hayden made a provocative comment - like I said earlier, good luck to him. Before this became "OMG, Sanz, stop overreacting and stop using this thread as an excuse to slam Australians" (perhaps the silliest argument in this thread, when you think about it), it just made sense to me that Sanz would take issue with the comment. Why does he have to acknowledge that Hayden has a point if he genuinely doesn't think so? How ridiculous.

As I wrote earlier, I get ****ed when people make comments about Waugh being a selfish player for Australia. It actually happens quite often - it doesn't make it true, and I think it's garbage. Probably a lot of Australian fans would be with me on that. If somebody says to me "but surely you can acknowledge that those critical of Waugh have a point", I say bulldust, I don't think they do. And that's nothing different from what Sanz is doing in this thread.

If somebody wants to say they agree with Hayden, sure, go ahead - but it's ridiculous to keep accusing Sanz of being so irrational. I do have to wonder though why this prioritisation of individual milestones seems to go on hold when they're putting Australia to the sword in test cricket. If Ganguly was to say that the Australians were lazy or careless in general (or even better, using the context that Hayden used, that ANGLO players were lazy and careless), there'd be a friggin' line of Aussies, Kiwis, Poms etc doing exactly what Sanz is doing in this thread.

Nuff said.

Hayden did say 'pretty much all subcontinental teams are like that' I agree. But isn't he referring to the fact that there's one or two players in the team who may go for personal milestones - not the whole team. That was the point I was making in the post and a rational mind would consider the fact that Tendulkar is not amongst the batsmen he's talking about considering his rate of scoring.

Personally I haven't brought up any individual innings here or there to either try and prove that Hayden accelerates during an innings or the players he's talking about do or don't because as far as I can see that's a totally pointless exercise that proves absolutely nothing at all. Hayden's made a comment possibly based on what he thinks, possibly for other reasons, and he's entitled to do so. I've never said Sanz should accept that Hayden has a point - he's entitled to his opinion as much as the rest of us on here (I'm pretty sure I'm repeating what I just said about 4-5 posts ago).

As for putting us to the sword in Test cricket - do you really think there's the level of domination there you're suggesting? THey certainly put us to the sword at home I'll give you that.

Sanz makes a bit of a habit of replying to things that he sees in my posts, instead of what he reads, and that ****es me off. THe same rule applies when you argue in favour of Hayden - all of a sudden you're tarred with the same brush as people who may well be into all the "you're just being Anti-Australian" stuff, when maybe you too are just trying to argue a point.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Yeah, I know. I always found Ranatunga's comments to be particularly insightful (especially when he called Warne useless before the recent Sri Lanka tour, and when he ridiculed Aussies for being convicts), 'cause like, he's played international cricket, and we haven't.

Just because one players comments are possibly a little silly and off-the-mark doesn't mean the next player to speak out about something should be tarred with the same brush. Possibly both Hayden and Ranatunga's comments can be called stupid, maybe only one of them can - it's very simplistic to say 'well, one player made a stupid comment, so any comments by players should be disregarded. Ranatunga and Warne had a history of being at each others throats - which may have provoked Ranatunga's comments (Warne said something beforehand too didn't he?).