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Hayden calls subcontinental batsmen 'selfish'

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Tim said:
I totally agree with Hayden. And i've said it myself a number of times on this forum.

It just seems to me that many subcontinent players (and im not suggesting its subcontinent players alone) want personal glory before team glory.
I remember at Cricinfo before the Asia Cup, Sehwag was talking about wanting to hit the first 200 in ODI's rather than winning the Asia Cup.

I think there is also a problem with the fact that when a batsman gets out he's not too worried because the next batsman can do it.
tim, can you give specific recent examples of the subcontinent players actually playing for personal glory(by this, i mean selfishly slow batting....there are other ways or searching for personal glory, but hayden was n0ot alluding to those...) and thus affecting the team's chances in a match? let me add here that slow batting because of being out of form or struggling to bat well in a particular match or being forced to bat slowly because wickets fall in a heap at the other end wouldn't count...i hope you agree. can you show me any other instance?

also talking about hitting 200 is not by any means, an example of selfishly slow batting....
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Sanz said:
Go ahead call them 'Chokers', 'Selfish', 'cheats' or whatever you wish to, it will not change the opinion of 1 billion Indians.
Most of those names have actually been used by Indians to describe their players as well though...
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
biased indian said:
i thought australia has only two idiots who comment on world cricket :D
but i am happy to know that there is a third one :p
People who live in glass houses...
 

Anil

Hall of Fame Member
Son Of Coco said:
uh, oh.......we're away again.
not looking to aggravate the situation or drag out the argument....just that when people make absolute statements like that...they should be willing to back themselves up with concrete facts....i consider tim as very knowledgable about cricket and an intelligent poster, and i would like to know the reasons why he said that, in the context of hayden's assertions....
 

GermanShepherd

School Boy/Girl Captain
marc71178 said:
For crying out loud - it comes out 2 days before he plays the UAE - a blind man could see what he was talking about.

Let's face it, had he gone on and made 200 in the UAE game, you'd all be saying how clever he was for predicting it.

Because he got a duck, you decide he wasn't meaning that game.
Had he made 200, my only complaint would have been that it hadn't come against England. :p :p
Anyone but a complete buffoon would have taken his comments in context and not dissected a portion of it and attributed some hidden meaning to it.

But then after 20,000 posts of complete drivel, I wouldn't have expected else from you Marc.
As was said perfectly on the Chris Cairns tribute thread,
, someone looks at your avatar Marc, then the nonsense spouted in your posts all makes sense.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
So you're not content with just insulting me, you now call half the forum complete buffoons.

Good one.
 

Swervy

International Captain
GermanShepherd said:
Had he made 200, my only complaint would have been that it hadn't come against England. :p :p
Anyone but a complete buffoon would have taken his comments in context and not dissected a portion of it and attributed some hidden meaning to it.

But then after 20,000 posts of complete drivel, I wouldn't have expected else from you Marc.
As was said perfectly on the Chris Cairns tribute thread,
, someone looks at your avatar Marc, then the nonsense spouted in your posts all makes sense.

hehehe..Moe's cool
 

Deja moo

International Captain
GermanShepherd said:
Had he made 200, my only complaint would have been that it hadn't come against England. :p :p
Anyone but a complete buffoon would have taken his comments in context and not dissected a portion of it and attributed some hidden meaning to it.

But then after 20,000 posts of complete drivel, I wouldn't have expected else from you Marc.
As was said perfectly on the Chris Cairns tribute thread,
, someone looks at your avatar Marc, then the nonsense spouted in your posts all makes sense.

Cool it German Shepherd......theres no need to get personal here. Lets all get along.
 

Deja moo

International Captain
Swervy said:
the fact he has no shame makes him more of a hero :D
They didnt teach shame at bartending college !


P.S: we have probably turned this thread off topic , but I'm glad if so. :)
 

Swervy

International Captain
Deja moo said:
They didnt teach shame at bartending college !


P.S: we have probably turned this thread off topic , but I'm glad if so. :)
is the calm before the next storm which will no doubt strike the shores of this thread soon enough
 

Bapu Rao Swami

U19 12th Man
this is what Harsha Bhogle had to say about Hayden's comment



HARSHA BHOGLE


Posted online: Friday, August 27, 2004 at 0012 hours IST



It would be tempting, and egotistical, to ignore Mathew Hayden’s remark about players from the sub-continent being selfish. You could call it gamesmanship, and there will be a substantial element of that, but if it hurts there is probably some truth to it.

If he had said all Indian batsmen are bandits, we wouldn’t have read it a second time, we would have called it whimsical, even wild, it wouldn’t have hurt. This one does, and so it merits examination. Sometimes it helps to look beyond initial feelings of outrage!



It is my hypothesis that in over-populated, and therefore insecure, countries the self will always dominate. Feelings of comradeship, of surrendering the self to the wider cause, can only arise in either a highly spiritual phase or where the performer has ascended to a level of personal calm about his achievements.

Where you are in a mob, and we are in a mob, self-preservation will always prevail; whether it is catching a bus, or getting out of a movie hall or getting admission to a professional college.

So too with Indian cricket, where unless you are selfish you cannot make a mark. We have 27 first-class teams and it is impossible for anyone to monitor individual players. At one level lower, it is even worse. Young players learn very quickly that it is their score, and not the manner in which it was scored, or indeed the situation that warranted it, that counts more than anything else.

A 17-year-old is bound to feel tempted to stay 66 not out even if his team loses the match than try to blast a quick 35 which won’t look as impressive when the selectors compare scores. If there were fewer players to look at, a selector could make his own assessment but with the numbers in India that is often impossible. That is why I would go so far as to say that unless you are selfish you have no chance of making it in Indian cricket.

And it is not easy to change, leopards in every profession are stuck with their spots. Actors from folk theatre will remain loud even in serious cinema, batsmen growing up on bouncy tracks will instinctively play the horizontal bat shots, people from gloomy lands will look unhappy even in bright sunshine. Players from our part of the world cannot suddenly become team players when they have survived by protecting their interests fiercely. In times of crisis, you go back to your instincts.

When a team is performing, and therefore settled, and where individuals are secure, they can rise above the self and play for the cause. Indeed, playing for the cause then becomes a greater virtue and we have seen that aspect too in Indian cricket. In Australia they learn that early because there are fewer people playing the game; the difference between being in a side and not being in it is not nearly as pronounced as it is in India.

If Australia had 500 million people, let alone a billion, they would play like a nation of 500 million, they would guard the self before aspiring to enrich the team.

The way out is to have fewer teams playing at the highest level. Apart from intensifying competition, it means only the best can play and with that comfort behind them players can get noticed for putting the team first. 27 first class teams is a recipe for selfishness and poor quality. If we can still put out a fairly good international team, imagine what you could do with only 15 teams. Concentrated solutions are always more potent than diluted ones.

As a result we tend to applaud individual efforts even if the team has collectively been let down. The batting average is a batsman’s badge of honour, the number of centuries his entry to the hall of fame. Even his advertising contracts have bonuses linked to the number of runs he has scored, not whether his team wins.

We dance alone, not in an ensemble, we pray alone, not in a community. We cannot suddenly expect young, insecure sportsmen to become team players when most of us aren’t.

Small, focussed groups can be different if they breathe a different air. In India’s cricket team there are many who are willing to go beyond the self. Now it needs to become addictive, it needs to spread to selectors and administrators. October might be a good time to prove to Matthew Hayden that it can happen.
 

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