Fringe Aussie fringe Players who would excel in other teams..

[marc71178]

haha mate, you cant just not include two series! that is part of his career! regardless of whether he has been worse after that it still counts. a career avg of 31.66 is not rubbish. its more like below average.

But to be fair it is getting worse, certainly post-injury.

 

[Craig]

i believe almost every test side bar maybe india, bangladesh and possibly sri lanka.

Actually in a side that struggles for pace and thus often for peneration on flat wickets, I think Brett Lee could probably make the New Zealand Test XI.

Admittley I'm no fan of Brett Lee, never have been, but who would you rather pick Brett Lee, Chris Martin (on a non bowler friendly wicket?), and/or Ian Bulter?

 

[Craig]

he was dropped from the last ODI against NZ, and i wouldnt be surprised if the aussie selectors decide for unknown reasons to pick lee ahead of kaspa for their next test, probably on the basis of we need someone who can bowl 150k.

Considering we have had a Test at Perth where that might have been the case, don't you think if they wanted somebody to bowl at 150km/h + they would have picked him on that?

Yet they didn't...

 

[Nate]

Considering we have had a Test at Perth where that might have been the case, don't you think if they wanted somebody to bowl at 150km/h + they would have picked him on that?

Yet they didn't...

face it Craig, you will never be right

 

[tooextracool]

But look at the number of wickets he takes.

it balances out with his poor ER to make him a decent ODI bowler, certainly nowhere near what kaspa has been bowling in ODIs in the last year.

 

[tooextracool]

Actually in a side that struggles for pace and thus often for peneration on flat wickets, I think Brett Lee could probably make the New Zealand Test XI.

Admittley I'm no fan of Brett Lee, never have been, but who would you rather pick Brett Lee, Chris Martin (on a non bowler friendly wicket?), and/or Ian Bulter?

chris martin if he bowls to potential is a far better bowler than lee.but yes perhaps lee might make the current NZ test side. but lee really doesnt ofer much on flat tracks, because if you lack accuracy you're never going to be penetrative.

 

[tooextracool]

Considering we have had a Test at Perth where that might have been the case, don't you think if they wanted somebody to bowl at 150km/h + they would have picked him on that?

Yet they didn't...

no they didnt, but they came very close to doing so. of course that would have been extremely foolish as kaspa took 7 wickets in the game. the fact that they even thought about it suggests to me that if kaspa had 1 poor game and went for 1/116 odd lee might just be back in the test side.

 

[Richard]

haha mate, you cant just not include two series! that is part of his career! regardless of whether he has been worse after that it still counts. a career avg of 31.66 is not rubbish. its more like below average.

You can "just not include them", that's precisely the point.
Anyone looking closely can see quite clearly that Lee's Test-career has two distinct parts, one in which he averages 16.07 and the other in which he averages 38.something.
It's perfectly fair to treat them separately, and given that the most recent one is the one that really matters, it's fair to judge him on the recent one not the less recent one.

 

[Nate]

hehe in that case i think ill throw out the early half of agits career and see what happens and then ill pick on some more indian and english players and see if its still the same.

 

[godonnygo]

Brad Hodge - Superb batsman but at the age of 30 still hasnt played a test. In any other country a man as talented as himself would have been a champion one day player and a solid test player.

Michael Bevan - Played a few tests, but couldnt handle bouncers. Even so, if he played in another country he would have got used to short pitched deliveries and become more comfortable. Greaty player.

Matthew Elliott - awesome opener, wisdeen cricketer of the year 1998, never found his full potential after being unfairly dropped in 1999. 3 Test centuries, but should have been given enough opportunities to make at least 20. very unlucky.

Dave Hussey - hed get a go in any other country, and hes a late bloomer so could play till hes 39-40. rapid rise to the top, a fine batsman better than his brother Mike.

Mike Hussey - his sstats are inflated playing weak county teams but hes a good player, and should get a go in any other country.

Stuart MacGill - played a fair few tests, but should have been more because hes not as good as warne. awesome spinner this guy.

Jamie Cox - solid 1st class player, veteran, would have played in england, but too many good players in front of him.

Stuey Law - awesome player, made 54* in his only test innings, but at least he played a sh*tload of ODIs. Still very unlucky, hopefully he can get a game for england, would love to see that

Martin Love - made a test ton, solid player, but too many openers in front of him like slater, blewett, elliott, langer, hayden.

DESERVED PLAYERS WHO SHOULDNT PLAY TEST CRICKET:
Brett Lee - very poor Test record over the past couple of seasons, he is not up to Australian standard. Very predictable bowling style, and is only suited to one dayers. Desreves not to play test cricket again.

 

[marc71178]

hehe in that case i think ill throw out the early half of agits career and see what happens and then ill pick on some more indian and english players and see if its still the same.

The difference is, Lee had a clear career defining change.

 

[social]

Someone made the point that it is almost impossible to predict the performance of someone who has yet to play Test Cricket - that is true to a certain extent.

However, what is also true is that statistics can be misleading.

Several of the posts in this thread have made reference to the deterioration in Brett Lee's performance over the years and how that deterioration leads them to the conclusion that he is average and/or unlikely to secure a position in other countries' test teams.

Whilst one cannot dispute the marked decline in his returns, there are extenuating circumstances - most notably the fact that he is now injury-free for the first time in years. As an example of how this has affected him, last summer he hardly bowled a ball, let alone spell, above 140 kph. In the first odi of the summer, he averaged over 150 kph and was timed at 156 kph -all with outswing.

Early in his career, Steve Waugh was impressed enough to label him (a once in a generation bowler." Should he continue to bowl at 150 kph with outswing, he'll walk into any team including Australia.

 

[Nate]

Someone made the point that it is almost impossible to predict the performance of someone who has yet to play Test Cricket - that is true to a certain extent.

However, what is also true is that statistics can be misleading.

Several of the posts in this thread have made reference to the deterioration in Brett Lee's performance over the years and how that deterioration leads them to the conclusion that he is average and/or unlikely to secure a position in other countries' test teams.

Whilst one cannot dispute the marked decline in his returns, there are extenuating circumstances - most notably the fact that he is now injury-free for the first time in years. As an example of how this has affected him, last summer he hardly bowled a ball, let alone spell, above 140 kph. In the first odi of the summer, he averaged over 150 kph and was timed at 156 kph -all with outswing.

Early in his career, Steve Waugh was impressed enough to label him (a once in a generation bowler." Should he continue to bowl at 150 kph with outswing, he'll walk into any team including Australia.

i like you

 

[Mr Casson]

chris martin if he bowls to potential is a far better bowler than lee.but yes perhaps lee might make the current NZ test side. but lee really doesnt ofer much on flat tracks, because if you lack accuracy you're never going to be penetrative.

See Shaun Tait.

 

[Mr Casson]

Brad Hodge - Superb batsman but at the age of 30 still hasnt played a test. In any other country a man as talented as himself would have been a champion one day player and a solid test player.

Michael Bevan - Played a few tests, but couldnt handle bouncers. Even so, if he played in another country he would have got used to short pitched deliveries and become more comfortable. Greaty player.

Matthew Elliott - awesome opener, wisdeen cricketer of the year 1998, never found his full potential after being unfairly dropped in 1999. 3 Test centuries, but should have been given enough opportunities to make at least 20. very unlucky.

Dave Hussey - hed get a go in any other country, and hes a late bloomer so could play till hes 39-40. rapid rise to the top, a fine batsman better than his brother Mike.

Mike Hussey - his sstats are inflated playing weak county teams but hes a good player, and should get a go in any other country.

Stuart MacGill - played a fair few tests, but should have been more because hes not as good as warne. awesome spinner this guy.

Jamie Cox - solid 1st class player, veteran, would have played in england, but too many good players in front of him.

Stuey Law - awesome player, made 54* in his only test innings, but at least he played a sh*tload of ODIs. Still very unlucky, hopefully he can get a game for england, would love to see that

Martin Love - made a test ton, solid player, but too many openers in front of him like slater, blewett, elliott, langer, hayden.

DESERVED PLAYERS WHO SHOULDNT PLAY TEST CRICKET:
Brett Lee - very poor Test record over the past couple of seasons, he is not up to Australian standard. Very predictable bowling style, and is only suited to one dayers. Desreves not to play test cricket again.

What an absolutely crap post.

I'd single out the bits I disagree with, but I disagree with all of it.

 

[godonnygo]

u dont even agree that Warne is better than Macgill

 

[chaminda_00]

An average of 32 like Brett lee Average isn't that bad compared to allot of other bowlers in world cricket that have an average of that region. For example C Vaas (29.9), D Vettori (35.1), A Giles (37.2), Z Khan (36.6), M Ntini (29.9) S Mushtaq (29.8), M Kasprowiz (30.4), M Hoggard (32.2), A Flintoff (35.7). The list could go on and on, but the point is that Brett average isn't that bad compared to others. I personally think that he would make most Test sides as a strike bowlers or at least a 3rd seamer.

Stuart MacGill record speaks for itself, nearly 5 wickets a match (160 wkts in 33 Tests). There is only 3 other spin bowlers in world cricket who take more wickets in each test then MacGill, these are Murali, Warne and D Kaneia(sp), he takes more wicket/test then Kumble. Considering this he would make every other test side in the world apart from India, he would make SL and PAK as a 2nd spinner.

Andrew Symonds got out bowled by Murali in the two test he played, he got him out 3 out of 4 times. Being out bowled by Murali doesn't mean your not good enough to play Test cricket. If so their would be many other that would not be good enough to play test cricket. Symonds 1st Class and ODI batting record shows he is good enough to play test cricket and would make most batting line-ups in the world apart from India.

Simon Katich would make any other Top 6 in world cricket, even the Indian one, but most likely as an opening batsmen. The others outside these 4 maybe but would be definents starters.

 

[marc71178]

An average of 32 like Brett lee Average isn't that bad compared to allot of other bowlers in world cricket that have an average of that region.

The problem is that's a career figure, not a post-injury figure...

 

[benchmark00]

The problem is that's a career figure, not a post-injury figure...

when was the last time he played in a test match? what makes you so sure that he hasnt improved?

 

[chaminda_00]

The problem is that's a career figure, not a post-injury figure...

So what is so wrong with his career figures, as i pointed out their are many bowlers in world cricket who have worse career figures then Brett i.e Flintoff, Hoggard, Simon Jones and Giles. Can't see Hoggard, S Jones being picked in front of him if he was English. I know as a Sri Lankan we would love to have someone like Brett opening the bowling with Vaas.