Coaching Talents of Greg Chappell

[Sanz]

Now I see, you're just another one of those myopic fans who considers the last few games the be all and end all. Do you even know of Pathans record before and after Chappell ?

BTW, the questions still remain unanswered by you. Thought I'd point it out.

All I know is he isn't even good enough to be picked into the team. I am sure you believe otherwise and going to prove that Irfan is actually a better bowler under Chappell. Over to You.

(1) Dravid had opened in tests already before Chappell.
(2) ODIs - You need to realise that Dravid is the captain and you have no way of knowing with certainty that Chappell was solely responsible for him opening in ODIs. Also, perhaps you might have heard of the phrase 'Trial and Error' ? You think of an idea, you try it. If it succeeds, well and good. If it fails, you try something else or revert back. Which is what happened in KL. Dravid failed, so they went back to Sehwag opening.

That's right blame it on 'experimentation'. Here is another myopic article - http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/260687.html

And thanks for telling me that Dravid has opened before, I really didn't know that. , but there was a reason he wasn't persisted with and hence the whole idea looks even more stupid. Dravid is not going to be a long term anyway but you my friend are going to convince us that he is.

(3) You do realise that there exist 5 selectors and a captain too who select the team ? Of course, you seem to like the idea of blaming only Chappell for Zaheer's absence.

5 selectors, aren't they the same people that selected Ganguly as a bowling allrounder in place of Zaheer. You know that that's another topic for some other day.

I've already addressed this, my friend. You'll have to try better than that to dig yourself out of this.:Or would you still like to continue to paint the captain and selectors as brainless and spineless dummies ?

Have you addressed it ? Where ? OH yeah Dravid is responsible for India's loss, but incase you have not noticed so far, this thread is not about Indian wins/losses but a drop in the performance of some of the players that were considered India's future until recently. Secondly Dravid isn't getting any extra money for being the captain, but Chappell is a professional hired to coach and expected to improve players's performances, fitness etc, gets majority of credit for a players's improvement, hence it is only fair that he gets the blame as well.

Lastly if it was still not clear to you - Here is it one more time, I hold Dravid as responsible as Chappell for India's losses, but Chappell solely responsible for the decline in Irfan Pathan's bowling, Dhoni's batting etc.

 

[Dasa]

Lastly if it was still not clear to you - Here is it one more time, I hold Dravid as responsible as Chappell for India's losses, but Chappell solely responsible for the decline in Irfan Pathan's bowling, Dhoni's batting etc.

Dhoni averages 49.20 in ODIs under Chappell while averaging 45.75 overall. He made his Test debut after Chappell was appointed coach - Chappell was appointed on May 20, 2005.

In Tests, Pathan averages 35.00 batting and 28.54 bowling under Chappell while he averages 27.83 batting and 30.79 bowling overall.
In ODIs, Pathan averages 28.54 batting and 22.54 bowling while Chappell has been around while averaging 26.34 batting and 24.81 bowling overall.

 

[adharcric]

Although it's tough to agree with Sanz, he's making a different point than the one you're addressing, Dasa. He's referring more to Pathan and Dhoni's recent loss of form I think, because it's pretty obvious Dhoni took off under Chappell and so did Pathan. It's just that they also went down a notch from greatness to mediocrity under him as well (recently).

 

[Sanz]

Dhoni averages 49.20 in ODIs under Chappell while averaging 45.75 overall. He made his Test debut after Chappell was appointed coach - Chappell was appointed on May 20, 2005.

In Tests, Pathan averages 35.00 batting and 28.54 bowling under Chappell while he averages 27.83 batting and 30.79 bowling overall.
In ODIs, Pathan averages 28.54 batting and 22.54 bowling while Chappell has been around while averaging 26.34 batting and 24.81 bowling overall.

Thanks for the stats Dasa, it is as convincing as SilentStriker's stats that he uses to suggest that Akram is a better captain than Pataudi.

Now that you have convinced me of Pathan's improvement under Chappell, can you explain why he played only one test in WI ? As for Dhoni, Can you honestly claim that he is a better batsman than he was under wright ?

 

[Dasa]

Although it's tough to agree with Sanz, he's making a different point than the one you're addressing, Dasa. He's referring more to Pathan and Dhoni's recent loss of form I think, because it's pretty obvious Dhoni took off under Chappell and so did Pathan. It's just that they also went down a notch from greatness to mediocrity under him as well (recently).

Yeah, you're right.

Thanks for the stats Dasa, it is as convincing as SilentStriker's stats that he uses to suggest that Akram is a better captain than Pataudi.

Now that you have convinced me of Pathan's improvement under Chappell, can you explain why he played only one test in WI ? As for Dhoni, Can you honestly claim that he is a better batsman than he was under wright ?

I didn't claim anything, just provided stats.

Anyway, I can see the point in saying Pathan may have declined under Chappell, but Dhoni? Dhoni played only nine ODIs before Chappell came in and had only made one significant score while averaging 35.

Looking at it logically, Dhoni has only been poor in the very recent past (last two series or so). If it was indeed Chappell 'causing' the poor performances, why would it take over a year to have an effect?

If you're going to blame Chappell for Dhoni and Pathan's recent loss of form, shouldn't you also praise Chappell for their brilliant form before the recent bad patch?

 

[adharcric]

If you're going to blame Chappell for Dhoni and Pathan's recent loss of form, shouldn't you also praise Chappell for their brilliant form before the recent bad patch?

Of course he shouldn't, because Cricinfo and other individuals have already done that part too much. Sanz has the moral responsibility to reverse their work.

 

[Sanz]

I didn't claim anything, just provided stats.

Anyway, I can see the point in saying Pathan may have declined under Chappell, but Dhoni? Dhoni played only nine ODIs before Chappell came in and had only made one significant score while averaging 35.

Looking at it logically, Dhoni has only been poor in the very recent past (last two series or so). If it was indeed Chappell 'causing' the poor performances, why would it take over a year to have an effect?

If you're going to blame Chappell for Dhoni and Pathan's recent loss of form, shouldn't you also praise Chappell for their brilliant form before the recent bad patch?

Dhoni was only successful for a very short span under Chappell and Chappell didn't have anything to do with it, because he had shown all of that before Chappell had come.

I have no doubt in my mind that JW would have made him a much better player.

 

[Sanz]

Of course he shouldn't, because Cricinfo and other individuals have already done that part too much. Sanz has the moral responsibility to reverse their work.

I dont have any moral responsibility. It is just that I think Chappell as a coach is a farce, he is just using his name as a batsman to earn some cheap bucks.

IMO, He doesn't have the personality, skills to coach a team like India.

 

[SJS]

I wonder what a coach does to be held responsible of a player running into a bad patch?

I think we must "applaud" Chappell for Tendulkar having got back to form , right ??

PS : Modern definition of a good coach : One who has a magic potion to ensure no player EVER runs into a bad patch

 

[marc71178]

In Tests, Pathan averages 35.00 batting and 28.54 bowling under Chappell while he averages 27.83 batting and 30.79 bowling overall.

Isn't that more to do with number of Ban/Zim games since Chappell came in as a proportion of total Ban/Zim games though.

 

[Sanz]

I wonder what a coach does to be held responsible of a player running into a bad patch?I think we must "applaud" Chappell for Tendulkar having got back to form , right ??

Yeah Right Sachin Tendulkar Average of 27.91 under Chappell is really great, I think Chappell Deserves Bharat Ratna for getting that kind of performance out of Tendulkar. Not to forget Tendulkar's ODI's avg. of 8 and 9 vs. Australia and SA under Chappell, oh wait he did have an avg. of 209 against WI, what a come back to form. What next ?? Tendulkar's avg. under Chappell while Chasing a target ? Oh that's a massive improvement, Under Chappell, Tendulkar averages a record breaking 29 while chasing a Target. What a remarkeble achievement.

 

[Fratboy]

All I know is he isn't even good enough to be picked into the team. I am sure you believe otherwise and going to prove that Irfan is actually a better bowler under Chappell. Over to You.

Erm..Pathan averages less with the ball since Chappell than he did before. And the before average is higher even though it includes a series against mighty Bangladesh. As I said, pretty myopic of you. What was that phrase again ? Right, over to you..

That's right blame it on 'experimentation'. Here is another myopic article - http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/260687.html

And thanks for telling me that Dravid has opened before, I really didn't know that. , but there was a reason he wasn't persisted with and hence the whole idea looks even more stupid. Dravid is not going to be a long term anyway but you my friend are going to convince us that he is.

Erm ? I advocate Dravid opening? Thats news to me .It seems to suit you fine to paint false pictures of others opinions. I do not advocate him opening, but i'm not **** enough either to not afford a team room to try out different appraoches and see whether those trials work out or not. If you were in charge of the team, we would still have Sehwag batting at 6 in tests. Wright would have promoted Sehwag up to open, he might on any other day have failed and vultures of your ilk would have ridiculed Wright for even trying. Sehwag, an opener ?? ridiculous ! There can be no improvement without innovation, and there can be no innovation without acceptance of chances of failure.

5 selectors, aren't they the same people that selected Ganguly as a bowling allrounder in place of Zaheer. You know that that's another topic for some other day.

You just demolished your own argument, thank you You expect selectors stupid enough to label Ganguly a bowling allrounder incapable of keeping Zaheer Khan out of the team ?

Have you addressed it ? Where ? OH yeah Dravid is responsible for India's loss, but incase you have not noticed so far, this thread is not about Indian wins/losses but a drop in the performance of some of the players that were considered India's future until recently. Secondly Dravid isn't getting any extra money for being the captain, but Chappell is a professional hired to coach and expected to improve players's performances, fitness etc, gets majority of credit for a players's improvement, hence it is only fair that he gets the blame as well.

Lastly if it was still not clear to you - Here is it one more time, I hold Dravid as responsible as Chappell for India's losses, but Chappell solely responsible for the decline in Irfan Pathan's bowling, Dhoni's batting etc.

And for the last time, let there be light.

Pathan is suffering a from slump. That does not mean hes a goner. He's just 22, still learning his trade. You blame Chappell for his 'decline', despite the fact that Pathan has been a better bowler for the past year under Chappell than before.

And coming to Dhoni, glad you reminded me. Do you know Dhoni the batsman ? The Dhoni who averages a grand 35 batting for Jharkhand against other Plate division teams in FC cricket ?

Dhoni: List A average: 45, ODI average: 45
Dhoni: FC average : 35, Test average: 31

I see it. You think Dhoni is underperformng in tests because comparatively he is a God in FC cricket, isnt it ? How dare Chappell not bump Dhoni's average in test cricket ? I mean, a guy who plunders runs against mighty Plate division bowling attacks at a grand 35 should surely average better at test level ? One must never consider the possibility that he simply might not be good enough. No, Chappel must be blamed.

PS: Still waiting for your proofs of Chappell being solely responsible for Dravid opening and Zaheer being kept out, my friend.

 

[adharcric]

nice one fratboy

 

[Jono]

And for the last time, let there be light.

Pathan is suffering a from slump. That does not mean hes a goner. He's just 22, still learning his trade. You blame Chappell for his 'decline', despite the fact that Pathan has been a better bowler for the past year under Chappell than before.

And coming to Dhoni, glad you reminded me. Do you know Dhoni the batsman ? The Dhoni who averages a grand 35 batting for Jharkhand against other Plate division teams in FC cricket ?

Dhoni: List A average: 45, ODI average: 45
Dhoni: FC average : 35, Test average: 31

I see it. You think Dhoni is underperformng in tests because comparatively he is a God in FC cricket, isnt it ? How dare Chappell not bump Dhoni's average in test cricket ? I mean, a guy who plunders runs against mighty Plate division bowling attacks at a grand 35 should surely average better at test level ? One must never consider the possibility that he simply might not be good enough. No, Chappel must be blamed.

PS: Still waiting for your proofs of Chappell being solely responsible for Dravid opening and Zaheer being kept out, my friend.

It must be said... BURN!

Killer argument.

 

[Sanz]

You blame Chappell for his 'decline', despite the fact that Pathan has been a better bowler for the past year under Chappell than before..

I am sure Pathan is a better bowler under Chappell, that's why he was picked to play all 4 tests against WI.

 

[Sanz]

And coming to Dhoni, glad you reminded me. Do you know Dhoni the batsman ? The Dhoni who averages a grand 35 batting for Jharkhand against other Plate division teams in FC cricket ?

Dhoni: List A average: 45, ODI average: 45
Dhoni: FC average : 35, Test average: 31

I see it. You think Dhoni is underperformng in tests because comparatively he is a God in FC cricket, isnt it ? How dare Chappell not bump Dhoni's average in test cricket ? I mean, a guy who plunders runs against mighty Plate division bowling attacks at a grand 35 should surely average better at test level ? One must never consider the possibility that he simply might not be good enough. No, Chappel must be blamed.

Dhoni is averaging <25 in last two series, Which I am sure is much much higher than his 1st class avg. Speaking for first class,

: Still waiting for your proofs of Chappell being solely responsible for Dravid opening and Zaheer being kept out, my friend.

I am still waiting for the proof that I ever made that statement.

 

[Fratboy]

I am sure Pathan is a better bowler under Chappell, that's why he was picked to play all 4 tests against WI.

So what if he wasn't ? If a bowler struggles, he is dropped. Simple as that. Doesn't change the fact that he has been a better bowler under Chappell than before. Or are you going to come up with some inane stat to show otherwise ?

 

[Fratboy]

Dhoni is averaging <25 in last two series, Which I am sure is much much higher than his 1st class avg. Speaking for first class,

Oh, yeah. I guess averaging less than 25 in two series is a crime when he averages as much as 35 against Plate Division attacks. Face it. You just want a scapegoat for his recent idiocies.

I am still waiting for the proof that I ever made that statement.

Jeez. You need everything spoon-fed, repeatedly. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. You do not even concede that the captain and the selection commitee might be responsible for what you accuse Chappell of. Your failure to do so leads to just one conclusion - you hold Chappell solely responsible for Dravid opening and Zaheer's omission. You've had plenty of chances in this topic to consider the possibility. So you either muster up the courage to make the concession, thus rendering the basis for this topic redundant, or you provide proofs of why Chappell should be held solely responsible.