Coaching Talents of Greg Chappell

[Dasa]

I did a search on only Cricinfo during the India-SL Series for few minutes and here are some, If I dig more newspapers for India-Eng and India-SA series I am pretty sure to find many more.

Well I still don't seee those 100s of interviews - I see a few interviews and a few general articles where they've asked for Chappell and others to comment on matters that he should know about.

Please get off that high horse you are riding. How many fans have you interacted with to make that kind of stupid claim ? In general I find most Cricket fans pretty well informed on cricketing matters and I would hardly call them ignorant.

It's not a high horse, it's a fact that the majority will never be well-informed and will largely be ignorant of the intricacies of the game. Why else would you have so many thinking Pathan is the next Wasim, and the next day calling him the worst bowler ever? Or to use an example that is prevalent here, why else would the vast majority of cricket fans still call Murali a chucker?

Are you sure you are talking about adharcric, who was going gaga about Raina's batting untill very recently and not to forget his over-estimation of Indian pace attack. I am not saying that he shouldn't have those opinions but he is doing the same thing as those large no of fans he calls as 'idiots'.

Where exactly has he gone "gaga" about Raina or Munaf, Sreesanth and any other of the young prospects? All I've seen is enthusiasm that there is some talent coming through without going over the top and declaring them to be anything they aren't. I'm sure adharcric would agree (I hope I'm not putting words in his mouth here) that all of the cricketers I've mentioned are good prospects but are still unproven. Yet, what's wrong with calling them potentially good (not even great)?
It's nothing even close to what the general fan on the street does.

 

[SirBloody Idiot]

First of all only person that is sidetracking this thread is YOU and secondly I am not blaming chappell for India's loss, I am blaming him for poor performance of folks like Irfan Pathan, MS Dhoni etc.

Lastly, it is a fact that Chappell gets more praise than the players when India wins., all you need to do is look @ CricInfo and read.

How exactly is it his fault that Dhoni and Pathan are playing badly. It isn't Chappell telling Pathan to bowl short outside leg stump and it certainly isn't Chappell telling Dhoni to drop everything that comes his way and play ridiculous shots.

Ever thought the two simply aren't that good?

 

[Sanz]

Well I still don't seee those 100s of interviews - I see a few interviews and a few general articles where they've asked for Chappell and others to comment on matters that he should know about.

I just showed you a sample during one series, if you want to keep the count, you got to look yourself, and you are right some were formal interviews some were not so formal, and we dont see any of those now.

It's not a high horse, it's a fact that the majority will never be well-informed and will largely be ignorant of the intricacies of the game. Why else would you have so many thinking Pathan is the next Wasim, and the next day calling him the worst bowler ever? Or to use an example that is prevalent here, why else would the vast majority of cricket fans still call Murali a chucker?

Oh please.. what gives you an idea that majority of Indian fans thought of Irfan as next Wasim, it was the media hype, I am yet to meet a cricket fan in real life who whinks that Irfan was next Wasim. Oh and its completely different from Murali's case because Murali's action looks dodgy from naked eye and that's why they think that Murali chucks and even that is changing now, all you have to do is look into this forum. I used to think that Murali chucks but my opinion has changed in last few years esp since they did that research last year. On the other hand Irfan Pathan never looked anywhere close to Akram at any point in his career.

Where exactly has he gone "gaga" about Raina or Munaf, Sreesanth and any other of the young prospects? All I've seen is enthusiasm that there is some talent coming through without going over the top and declaring them to be anything they aren't. I'm sure adharcric would agree (I hope I'm not putting words in his mouth here) that all of the cricketers I've mentioned are good prospects but are still unproven. Yet, what's wrong with calling them potentially good (not even great)?
It's nothing even close to what the general fan on the street does.

All you have to do is read his posts and I dont know which fan on the street you are talking about.

 

[silentstriker]

If Dhoni needs Chappell to tell him not to be an idiot and play those shots, then the Indian cricket team is in more trouble than I thought.

 

[Sanz]

Excuse me, me sidetracking ? My, my you get defensive far too easily. All I did was ask you to prove that Chappell is solely responsible for all that you hold him responsible for. You couldn't, and began to sidetrack blaming the media. Its a simple concept mate: You think Chappell makes all decisions, and therefore you have to substantiate that he is the one responsible for what you blame him for.

Can you prove Dravid had nothing to with himself opening ?
Can you prove that Zaheer Khan is plying his trade for Worcestershire only because of Chappell ?
Can you prove that Pathan has been signifcantly worse a bowler than before Chappell stepped in ?[/QUOTE]

My god you need so many proofs, Are you a lawyer or what ? If at all you are one then I must say a lousy one because why would anyone want it to be proven that Pathan is a significantly worse bowler under Chappell ? Do we even need to prove it ?

Secondly how many matches Did Dravid open before Chappell ? How many matches Zaheer has played since Chappell became coach ?

Lastly, since you want so many proofs, can you prove that I said anywhere Chappell is 'Solely' Responsible for all that you think I hold him responsible for ?

 

[Sanz]

If Dhoni needs Chappell to tell him not to be an idiot and play those shots, then the Indian cricket team is in more trouble than I thought.

Then what do we need Chappell for ? He is not supposed to fix IRfan's bowling problems ? He is not supposed to teach Dhoni's how not to play his idiotic shots ? He is obviously not advising Dravid on opening the batting for India. He sure is not advising Dravid on any team selection.

Well then what the hell is he doing as a coach ?

 

[R_D]

If Dhoni needs Chappell to tell him not to be an idiot and play those shots, then the Indian cricket team is in more trouble than I thought.

Well the coach is their for a reason and he's suppose to get better out of his players. If the player keeps on going out on those silly shots maybe he should have talk to him ? i beleive thats part of his job. Threaten to drop him if he continues to play those stupid shots but the fact that we are seeing same players repeat same mistakes again and again says somthing about our coach. Perhaps he's not doing his job.... too much focus on giving out interviews.

 

[adharcric]

All you have to do is read his posts and I dont know which fan on the street you are talking about.

Why don't you step up and show the post where I claimed any of them to be superstars? I myself am saying that I don't believe anything but the fact that they all are promising and have the potential to be good cricketers. Seriously, stop putting words in my mouth just to suit your "argument". If people like Dasa can sensibly interpret my posts, why not you?

 

[Sanz]

Why don't you step up and show the post where I claimed any of them to be superstars? I myself am saying that I don't believe anything but the fact that they all are promising and have the potential to be good cricketers. Seriously, stop putting words in my mouth just to suit your "argument". If people like Dasa can sensibly interpret my posts, why not you?

Are you the guy who declared "I was the first one to predict Raina's greatness on here"?
Isn't he the guy in your Avtaar ?
Dont you always say that Raina is better than the likes of Kaif, Sehwag in our middle order ?
Didn't you declare Raina in Yuvraj's Class ?

 

[adharcric]

Are you the guy who declared "I was the first one to predict Raina's greatness on here"?

That was in response to SJS's post when Raina scored big against England and we were all joking around about who was the first to spot him.
By the way, I still do predict Raina's greatness. He's not even close yet, but I have the right to make predictions at least?

Isn't he the guy in your Avtaar ?

Yes, I'm a huge Raina fan.

Dont you always say that Raina is better than the likes of Kaif, Sehwag in our middle order ?

I never compared Raina to an established batsman on the basis of a place in the team or performance. I've always said that he has the ability to be as good as them, if not better. Why would I say something like what you're accusing me of when he hasn't even scored a ton yet?

Didn't you declare Raina in Yuvraj's Class ?

Yes I did. I declared Raina in Yuvraj and Kaif's class "in the field".

Good job Sanz, at least you gave it your best.

 

[Sanz]

That was in response to SJS's post when Raina scored big against England and we were all joking around about who was the first to spot him.
By the way, I still do predict Raina's greatness. He's not even close yet, but I have the right to make predictions at least?

Yes, I'm a huge Raina fan.

I never compared Raina to an established batsman on the basis of a place in the team or performance. I've always said that he has the ability to be as good as them, if not better. Why would I say something like what you're accusing me of when he hasn't even scored a ton yet?

Yes I did. I declared Raina in Yuvraj and Kaif's class "in the field".

Good job Sanz, at least you gave it your best.

And you still think that you didn't go overboard with Raina and yet feel justufied in calling large no. Indian fans as idiots for doing the same thing ?

Dude, looking at his performances so far, Raina is simply a mediocre batsman and far from being a GREAT one. He hasn't even showed the potential to be a great one with batting avg of 30 , strike rate of 75 and an away avg. of 17

Guys like Hussey and KP (and not Raina) are the ones with great potential.

 

[adharcric]

And you still think that you didn't go overboard with Raina and yet feel justufied in calling large no. Indian fans as idiots for doing the same thing ?

Way to change the topic without accepting that I never called Raina a star.
Look, if you were offended by me calling a large number of Indian fans idiots, I'll take that back. In retrospect, I should've put it differently: I think they are ignorant and thus listen to twisted media reports and then go around thinking they know everything when they really know knothing. You can see it on cricbuzz.com (), other low-quality Indian cricket forums online, as well as in cities in India where people start to burn effigies of a coach, a player or a selector impulsively. This section of the Indian fanbase is not even a majority, but it certainly exists. A few posters of Indian origin have already backed up that claim on here. I don't personally (as in friends, family, acquaintances) know any fans like this and you probably don't either; that's a good thing. Doesn't mean these people aren't out there.

Dude, looking at his performances so far, Raina is simply a mediocre batsman and far from being a GREAT one. He hasn't even showed the potential to be a great one with batting avg of 30 , strike rate of 75 and an away avg. of 17

Guys like Hussey and KP (and not Raina) are the ones with great potential.

I've been a Raina fan for a while now, but I really started to rate him (his potential, so to speak) after seeing the innings vs England the Dhoni-Raina match-winning partnership in Pakistan. For a 19-year-old, those two innings showed tremendous composure, temperament and skill. Now, he hasn't been consistent since then and I've been disappointed in his latest performances, but to see potential you only need a few glimpses of brilliance and I definitely saw those in Raina. If you didn't, that's your issue. Besides, I'm not the only one on this forum who thinks that this kid has the slightest bit of potential. Don't look into the statistics too much. If you've been watching matches, you would've noticed that he got a duck on debut to a first-ball doosra from Murali and that his strike rate would be 79 if it weren't for a crucial 24 (62) he made when India were 80 for 5 in the Harbhajan 5-fer match vs England. Anyways, I don't really care about the stats because I've seen the potential. I never said he's close to being a GREAT one. I never said he's close to being a GREAT one. Hopefully two times does the trick.

 

[viktor]

Please get off that high horse you are riding. How many fans have you interacted with to make that kind of stupid claim ? In general I find most Cricket fans pretty well informed on cricketing matters and I would hardly call them ignorant.



Are you sure you are talking about adharcric, who was going gaga about Raina's batting untill very recently and not to forget his over-estimation of Indian pace attack. I am not saying that he shouldn't have those opinions but he is doing the same thing as those large no of fans he calls as 'idiots'.



We clearly differ in our assessment, IMO they have had a ordinary career so far.



I want India to play well(dont care about win/loss) on consistent basis, If I find someone overrated then I am going to express my opinion, whether anyone likes or not.

I think there is a contradiction in your statements.
1) most fans are well informed.
2) adhacric praising/hyping the new pace attack is similar to what the other Indian fans do and idiotic.
3) You think the pace attack is mediocre
and
4) You do not think you are an idiot.

 

[SJS]

...too many Indian fans are blindly swayed by media propaganda?

You have hit the nail on its bloming head !!

 

[Sanz]

I think there is a contradiction in your statements.
2) adhacric praising/hyping the new pace attack is similar to what the other Indian fans do and idiotic.
.

I didn't say most fans are Idiots, Adharcric did, for pretty much the same thing he does on this forum.

Yet adharcric considers himself a well informed fan and continues to call a large no. of fans as idiots.

 

[Sanz]

Way to change the topic without accepting that I never called Raina a star. Look, if you were offended by me calling a large number of Indian fans idiots, I'll take that back. In retrospect, I should've put it differently: I think they are ignorant and thus listen to twisted media reports and then go around thinking they know everything when they really know knothing. You can see it on cricbuzz.com , other low-quality Indian cricket forums online, as well as in cities in India where people start to burn effigies of a coach, a player or a selector impulsively. This section of the Indian fanbase is not even a majority, but it certainly exists. A few posters of Indian origin have already backed up that claim on here. I don't personally (as in friends, family, acquaintances) know any fans like this and you probably don't either; that's a good thing. Doesn't mean these people aren't out there.
.

How did I change the topic ? I still maintain that if you are going to call Indian fans as 'Idiots' for their over enthusiasm then you pretty much do the same stuff here on this forum.

And since when Cricbuzz became a rerepresentative of Indian cricket fans, Actually majority of cricket fans in India dont even have access to Inernet. I wont be surprised if Cricbuzz's majority traffic is from outside of India because folks outside India dont often get to watch cricket and even those burning effigies in streets of India are very small minority something you fail to notice.

 

[adharcric]

How did I change the topic ? I still maintain that if you are going to call Indian fans as 'Idiots' for their over enthusiasm then you pretty much do the same stuff here on this forum.

And since when Cricbuzz became a rerepresentative of Indian cricket fans, Actually majority of cricket fans in India dont even have access to Inernet. I wont be surprised if Cricbuzz's majority traffic is from outside of India because folks outside India dont often get to watch cricket and even those burning effigies in streets of India are very small minority something you fail to notice.

Just a question here. How many uneducated fans do you think there are in India? Don't think that I'm targetting relatively well-off middle-class citizens when I refer to ignorant fans (idiots). It's the uneducated masses (uhh, they do exist) usually. If you still don't get the fact that I watch the cricketers play and then make judgments while some of those fans watch the media play and then make judgments (hence the difference), then there's no point arguing. I can't bring up rioting in Kolkata because you get emotional about that too. So agree to disagree, because this is hopeless. I've already got confirmation that what I claimed about those fans is correct from just about every respectable poster on here, so I'm content ... and your opinion of me stopped mattering the day you labelled me an anti-Bengali, Kolkata-hater, so I'm not sure why I wasted my time in this case. No bad feelings though. End of story.

 

[Sanz]

Yeah Adharcric - Suresh Raina is the next big thing. You have proved that You are a very educated Cricket follower.

Wonder how long it takes before it will dissappear like your old signature about Indian fast bowlers..

 

[adharcric]

Yeah Adharcric - Suresh Raina is the next big thing. You have proved that You are a very educated Cricket follower.

Wonder how long it takes before it will dissappear like your old signature about Indian fast bowlers..

Thank you. Keep wondering. One day it will disappear, not because of his success or failure, but because there's something called modifying your sig every once in a while.

EDIT: I just modified it again, just for your sake. (Of course, for you too SS ... although you would actually be happy if they did well.)

 

[Fratboy]

Excuse me, me sidetracking ? My, my you get defensive far too easily. All I did was ask you to prove that Chappell is solely responsible for all that you hold him responsible for. You couldn't, and began to sidetrack blaming the media. Its a simple concept mate: You think Chappell makes all decisions, and therefore you have to substantiate that he is the one responsible for what you blame him for.


Can you prove Dravid had nothing to with himself opening ?
Can you prove that Zaheer Khan is plying his trade for Worcestershire only because of Chappell ?
Can you prove that Pathan has been signifcantly worse a bowler than before Chappell stepped in ?

My god you need so many proofs, Are you a lawyer or what ? If at all you are one then I must say a lousy one because why would anyone want it to be proven that Pathan is a significantly worse bowler under Chappell ? Do we even need to prove it ?

Now I see, you're just another one of those myopic fans who considers the last few games the be all and end all. Do you even know of Pathans record before and after Chappell ?

BTW, the questions still remain unanswered by you. Thought I'd point it out.

Secondly how many matches Did Dravid open before Chappell ? How many matches Zaheer has played since Chappell became coach ?

(1) Dravid had opened in tests already before Chappell.
(2) ODIs - You need to realise that Dravid is the captain and you have no way of knowing with certainty that Chappell was solely responsible for him opening in ODIs. Also, perhaps you might have heard of the phrase 'Trial and Error' ? You think of an idea, you try it. If it succeeds, well and good. If it fails, you try something else or revert back. Which is what happened in KL. Dravid failed, so they went back to Sehwag opening.
(3) You do realise that there exist 5 selectors and a captain too who select the team ? Of course, you seem to like the idea of blaming only Chappell for Zaheer's absence.

Lastly, since you want so many proofs, can you prove that I said anywhere Chappell is 'Solely' Responsible for all that you think I hold him responsible for ?

I've already addressed this, my friend. You'll have to try better than that to dig yourself out of this.:

Did I claim any such thing ?

Then shouldn't the thread title also include mention of Dravid's captaincy skills ?

Or would you still like to continue to paint the captain and selectors as brainless and spineless dummies ?