Brad Hogg as a test match option

[Matt79]

I think the prime reason for Aussies not picking MacGill was that they believed Warney could do the job on his own and Warney was also never comfortable with MacGill or for that matter any other spinner playing alongside him.



Btw, whenever MacGill and Warney have played together in the same team MacGill has had better figures than Warney (on most of the occasions).

Warne and MacGill's difficulties, if not wildly exaggerated in the first place, probably had more to do with their respective personalities rather than Warne having a particular problem playing with other spinners. MacGill is rather famous for not being your usual personality type in cricket and has had personality clashes with others, and I could see how Shane might not be everyone's cup of tea as well.

On the other hand Warne loved playing and bowling with Tim May and has stated that one regret was that he didn't get a chance to form another partnership with a quality fingerspinner...

 

[Perm]

If George's Pura Cup performances this season are good then he should be given a chance in the test matches too if MacGill is not performing.

Providing of course that he does play for Western Australia in the Pura Cup, it's quite possible that Aaron Heal will be the #1 spinner and Hogg won't even get a game.

 

[aussie]

Which may be never.

deep down i get that feeling tbh, Australia may end up up being another South Africa a lot of top fast-bowling talent but no really good spinner.

 

[pup11]

I don't think Aussies are gonna be like Saffies, Aussies are very serious about finding their future spin option and thats very clear from the fact that CA have given contracts to almost every good emerging spinner in the country.


But in South Africa there aren't any good spinners but South African cricket board hasn't done anything on its part of groom some young spin bowlers either.

 

[marc71178]

Actually that's incorrect, Warne was generally outbowled by MacGill (ie he took less wickets). There have been numerous statistical investigations that prove as much. Whether MacGill actually bowled better, well that is a different question entirely.

My theory is that batsmen saw MacGIll as the weak link, so took more risks against him, thus going after balls that if Warne had bowled they'd have defended...

 

[marc71178]

I don't think Aussies are gonna be like Saffies, Aussies are very serious about finding their future spin option and thats very clear from the fact that CA have given contracts to almost every good emerging spinner in the country.

Don't you mean every emerging spinner in the country?

Unless averages over 40 are now good?

 

[Hoggy31]

Providing of course that he does play for Western Australia in the Pura Cup, it's quite possible that Aaron Heal will be the #1 spinner and Hogg won't even get a game.

That'll never happen, even if Heal is performing better with the ball (which is unlikely), Hogg's good enough to play as a number 6/7 batsman.

 

[Salamuddin]

I

But in South Africa there aren't any good spinners

Are you a South African talent scout in your spare time ?
How can you possibly say there are no good upcoming spinners in South Africa ?

 

[pup11]

If there were any good spinners in South Africa won't they be playing for their national side??

 

[Salamuddin]

If there were any good spinners in South Africa won't they be playing for their national side??

But you reckon guys like Cullen, Casson, Bailey are "good" spinners and they have done nada at international level.
What's to say similar talent doesn't exist in RSA ?

 

[Matt79]

Goughy and Langers do say that IIRC - I take their word for it...

 

[Burgey]

deep down i get that feeling tbh, Australia may end up up being another South Africa a lot of top fast-bowling talent but no really good spinner.

I think that Australia's climate and pitches will always mean there's a place for spin here, especially in tests. Doesn't mean we won't have patches where the current crop aren't that flash, just like any other facet of the game.
The need in ODIs to take the pace off the ball should also mean spiners conitnue to have a place in the game here.

 

[PhoenixFire]

I think that Australia's climate and pitches will always mean there's a place for spin here, especially in tests. Doesn't mean we won't have patches where the current crop aren't that flash, just like any other facet of the game.
The need in ODIs to take the pace off the ball should also mean spiners conitnue to have a place in the game here.

What has the climate got to do with it?


EDIT: Sorry if that sounded rude, I was just curious.

 

[Burgey]

The dryness and heat, combined with pitches designed to last 4 & 5 days means there is always a part ofr the spinners late in tests. The heat also means a slow bowling option is helpful to rest the quicks when it's 40 degrees. Compared with, say England where pitches don't dry out as much.
PS: didn't think you were being rude

 

[Richard]

Personally I honestly can't think of many Gabba, WACA or MCG pitches that have started unfriendly for fingerspin then become friendly as the game's worn on.

And nor can I think of a SCG pitch that has failed to offer assistance at any point...

 

[Richard]

But you reckon guys like Cullen, Casson, Bailey are "good" spinners and they have done nada at international level.
What's to say similar talent doesn't exist in RSA ?

You mean nada at domestic level, surely?

 

[open365]

I think Hogg is the only realistic spinning option other than McGill right now, i've really don't think there's anyone in Australia that could do an at least reasonable job at test match level.

 

[Burgey]

Richard,
Are you saying climate isn't a factor in pace or spin friendliness in conditions? It has to be - if you start a game at the Gabba on a pitch which has some juice in it, and play that game with low cloud cover and the occasional shower, of course it will influence how the pitch plays and therefore what mode of bowling will succeed as the match goes on. Likewise, if you start the game in 30 degree heat and have a four day heat wave, the pitch will dry out, flatten out and be more suitable to spin.
In assessing conditions, climate is always a factor.

 

[Richard]

I'm just asking - when were the occasions when the climate did affect the pitches at said stadia? The only ground I can ever remember having pitches that became spin-friendly having not been so at the start has been Adelaide Oval. I can't ever remember The Gabba or The MCG offering much at all to fingerspinners, I can't ever remember The SCG not doing so, and The WACA always seems to produce mostly spinners' graveyards and the odd turner, probably once every 4 years or so.

 

[Mister Wright]

I'm just asking - when were the occasions when the climate did affect the pitches at said stadia? The only ground I can ever remember having pitches that became spin-friendly having not been so at the start has been Adelaide Oval. I can't ever remember The Gabba or The MCG offering much at all to fingerspinners, I can't ever remember The SCG not doing so, and The WACA always seems to produce mostly spinners' graveyards and the odd turner, probably once every 4 years or so.

If a 'Gabba test ever gets to the 5th day, it is usually very helpful to spinners. It was Warne's best ground IIRC. Usually the spinners like it so much on the last day because it still has bounce, but does also offer more turn. However, it's all for the pacemen early in the game.