Am I the only one here who rates Sunil Gavaskar slightly above Viv Richards in Test?

[capt_Luffy]

Viv batted in the top three, dominated Willis, Botham, Snow, Underwood, and averaged 60+. He is a hundred miles beyond Gavaskar in Eng and Aus. In 76, Viv faced Underwood, Snow, Willis, and scored 829 runs in 4 matches(more than 250+) and much faster. It’s clearly better than Gavaskar 76. Gavaskar averaged 29 across 4 tours in Eng. That’s why beyond an ATG tour, he failed clearly in England.

I don't know honestly if he should be that much ahead of Australia. I think the 78 tour gets to much flak for Lillee not playing, but it indeed was tough. Again, not comparable to Viv in 79, but definitely to 76. And I am not saying Viv is not better at swinging conditions, just that those are a much bigger challenge for openers and I think kinda explains the genuine lack of Top tier ones post War except Sunny and Hutton.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

I don't know honestly if he should be that much ahead of Australia. I think the 78 tour gets to much flak for Lillee not playing, but it indeed was tough. Again, not comparable to Viv in 79, but definitely to 76. And I am not saying Viv is not better at swinging conditions, just that those are a much bigger challenge for openers and I think kinda explains the genuine lack of Top tier ones post War except Sunny and Hutton.

I think so. And Viv batted in the top three during his peak, so that reduces opener tax in this comparison.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Viv’s 79 in Aus is the best tour by anyone to Aus in modern times. And he had some good tours apart from that as well. So I think he is that much better

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

I think Viv is that much of Gavaskar in both Aus and Eng atleast as much as Gavaskar in Pak.

 

[Arachnodouche]

I think so. And Viv batted in the top three during his peak, so that reduces opener tax in this comparison.

But it helps to have Fredericks, Greenidge and Haynes belting the cover off the ball before you come in.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I think Viv is that much of Gavaskar in both Aus and Eng atleast as much as Gavaskar in Pak.

I don't know if we can compare Australia directly really.

 

[Arachnodouche]

This is probably an unpopular opinion but I also tend to take into account the country a player comes from, the country's heritage of producing quality players in the given discipline, the stature of the country on the world scene, and how much of an outlier/path-setter the player eventually turned out to be. This doesn't make them necessarily better than greats from more storied nations, but it does boost their credentials a little more. In Gavaskar's case, the gap between him and others is small enough for this factor to be amplified even more.

 

[Socerer 01]

Viv is far and away the best player I have ever seen. Some youngsters will say X or Y averages 2 more or so on, they display their ignorance and arrogance of youth. Stats ultimately reflect only part of the story - it's the context and the way a man changes a game that matters more. Viv was miles better than some names people chuck around. He was a match winner in the truest sense.

people are going to be saying this about de Villiers and Kohli in 10 years if not already and the Viv stans are going to seethe

No. Different folk.

“rules for thee but not for me”

 

[Socerer 01]

fwiw i do believe Viv > Gavaskar but not by the big margin that is spread around here

 

[kyear2]

Again I won’t say Viv and Gavaskar are in different leagues, or Hutton is better than Gavaskar by a mile. All are top 9 batsmen

I would, would also add Tendulkar, Sobers, Hobbs..... Likely Smith and Lara as well.

But yes, he is a top 10 quality batsman

 

[Pant Kameez]

This is probably an unpopular opinion

Also an asinine one

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

But it helps to have Fredericks, Greenidge and Haynes belting the cover off the ball before you come in.

In Australia, especially in the 79 series, Viv was the major difference between the sides, since for the WI batters early on the bounce and relentless was giving them PTSD regarding 75 tour. Viv hooked and pulled relentlessly

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

I don't know if we can compare Australia directly really.

I think Viv dominated Lillee in 79. Gavaksar never did. Viv on Aus pitches was far more proved than Gavaskar and far more success as well

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

fwiw i do believe Viv > Gavaskar but not by the big margin that is spread around here

I agree with this

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Also Viv as an opener vs Lillee and Thomson in 75 was amazing

 

[Fuller Pilch]

For me some of the best away tours are(absolute top tier): Gavaskar 78 to England(a bit marginal tho), Viv 1976 to Eng, 1979 to Aus, 1980 to Pak, Amarnath 1983 to WI, Waugh 1995 to WI, Smith Ashes 2019, Smith BGT 2017, Kohli to Eng 2019, Kohli to RSA 2018(2nd best tour on this list after Amarnath IMO, given he played an ATG attack on some of the most demonic pitches ever and outperformed everyone significantly), Sachin to RSA 2010, Dravid to Eng 2011

Mitchell to England 2022

 

[BazBall21]

Any gap between Hutton and Gavaskar is imagined. You seem to take the romanticised version of Hutton, ignoring that he was criticised for negative cricket, slow scoring and not taking the bowlers on as much as Gavaskar while holding all those things against Sunny. English writers of the time favoured Compton and Hutton over Gavaskar most definitely isn't some expert consensus.

Hutton became more defensive after his War injury

 

[capt_Luffy]

Hutton became more defensive after his War injury

Very true and I whole heartedly believe without his injury and war Hutton would had been the prime contender for no 2 after Bradman. But the injury happened, and while it's a very good explanation, it doesn't helps that his scoring speed might had been detrimental at a variety of situations.

 

[Coronis]

No. Different folk.

Its ok. Many people fail to see their own hypocrisy.

 

[GoonBag]

Yeah, just not everyone together.... Which was the windies bowling unit back then.

Sunny only faced the WI pace quartet in one series, 1983. Averaged 30....