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All Time Sub Cont XI

C_C

International Captain
I agree with SJS here- the list is too rigorous and closely contested to be pruned, especially in the test arena.
However, if one HAS to pick a team, i'd go with this one :

Gavaskar
Mankad
Dravid
Tendulkar
Miandad
Imran
Kapil
Kirmani
Wasim
Waqar
Murali


ODIs:

Tendulkar
Ganguly
Sangakkara
Abbass
Dravid
Miandad
Kapil
Imran
Wasim
Murali
Waqar
 
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honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I will only select from the guys I have seen play. So it is strictly post 90.


Tests:

Anwar
Sehwag
Dravid
Sachin
Inzy
De Silva
Sangakkara (wk)
Murali
Wasim
Waqar
Kumble
Shoaib


ODIs:

Sachin
Jayasuriya
Anwar
Inzy
Sangakkara (wk)
Dravid
Kapil
Wasim
Waqar
Murali
Shoaib
Kumble
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Goughy said:
Well I chose Merchant in post 4 of this thread :)

Its interesting that the Englishman (me) is the only one to choose Engineer as the keeper. I guess his reputation in the UK was enhanced by his long and successful stint in County Cricket.
I think Engineer was a superb keeper too. I did not think for long that Kirmani was better than him. Of late I have got carried away with the constant 'drone' that Engineer was flashy.

Frankly, he was very very good and i doubt if Kirmani would have played much international cricket if Engineer was available at exactly the same time.

Engineer was also a great motivator for the team on the field. The Indian triumphs of the early seventies and the improvement in energy levels around the wicket owed a helluva lot to this effervescent Parsi.

No you did well to chose him.
 

Beleg

International Regular
and yet he has played more then 100 tests and 350 ODI's....


I am also not so sure of Inzy's place in an all time one day side. I could think of Azhar, Asif Iqbal, Saleem 'cheater' Malik as possible candidates.
I don't know about Asif Iqbal but there's no way I'd have Cheater and Cheater before Inzamam in an ODI team. The difference between Malik and Inzamam is the difference between Sehwag and Dravid.

From everything I have read (and the brief clips I have seen), Asif Iqbal seemed like the 70's version of Jonty Rhodes, only more naturally talented.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Beleg said:
and yet he has played more then 100 tests and 350 ODI's....




I don't know about Asif Iqbal but there's no way I'd have Cheater and Cheater before Inzamam in an ODI team. The difference between Malik and Inzamam is the difference between Sehwag and Dravid.

From everything I have read (and the brief clips I have seen), Asif Iqbal seemed like the 70's version of Jonty Rhodes, only more naturally talented.
I am just fooling around. Inzy lends himself easily to a bit of fun at his expense.:)

You are right that there is no comparison between him and Malik. But you know there is no comparison between Bevan and many celeberated Aussie batsmen yet Bevan would make most all time Aussie XI's. malik was a very good one day batsman. Not that inzy isnt but Malik was a specialst.

The differnce between them in tests is huge due to the format but in ODI's sometimes less talented players seem to fit in very well.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Beleg said:
From everything I have read (and the brief clips I have seen), Asif Iqbal seemed like the 70's version of Jonty Rhodes, only more naturally talented.
??? Why does almost every comment about Asian and Pakistani cricketers seem to involve them being 'more naturally talented'? What the hell does that mean?
 

FRAZ

International Captain
Goughy said:
??? Why does almost every comment about Asian and Pakistani cricketers seem to involve them being 'more naturally talented'? What the hell does that mean?
They get a bat before a feeder and they play with natural ability .With natural hand and eye coordination . Try to get a biography of Miandad. Or try to learn the life of Yousaf Youhana. these guys just played on the streets . They did not come out of the rich academies .They played in the circumstances which were just.......... Ever imagined playing on a dirt road where carts and cars and bicycles are going all together. I myself have broken windows of my neighbour . This is called learning naturaly .
Natural talent . Desi Academy.....
 
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Hugh

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
FRAZ said:
They get a bat before a feeder and they play with natural ability .With natural hand and eye coordination . Try to get a biography of Miandad. Or try to learn the life of Yousaf Youhana. these guys just played on the streets . They did not come out of the rich academies .They played in the circumstances which were just.......... Ever imagined playing on a dirt road where carts and cars and bicycles are going all together. I myself have broken windows of my neighbour . This is called learning naturally .
Natural talent . Desi Academy.....
So backyards and beaches do not count as natural breeding grounds as in the case of Westerners ? Or is chaotic traffic a pre-requisite ?
 

FRAZ

International Captain
Hugh said:
So backyards and beaches do not count as natural breeding grounds as in the case of Westerners ? Or is chaotic traffic a pre-requisite ?
Wanna hit over the top of the Rickshaw while avoiding the street lamp . Wanna know what is tape ball cricket. Wanna know how to save every single tennis ball to go in the neighbours home . Man trust me it is tough .
 

Hugh

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
FRAZ said:
Wanna hit over the top of the Rickshaw while avoiding the street lamp . Wanna know what is tape ball cricket. Wanna know how to save every single tennis ball to go in the neighbours home . Man trust me it is tough .
I'm sorry. That must explain why Pakistan is the number one cricketing nation in the world.
 

FRAZ

International Captain
Hugh said:
I'm sorry. That must explain why Pakistan is the number one cricketing nation in the world.
hahahaha When did I say that learning in that fashion is the best way ... Did I ? hahahaha Pakistan had been good before.Pakistan did beat Australia quite a few times. India did beat Australia quite a few times Murali is a good bowler to have in the team And hahahaahah under those circumstances who can come out and even dare to compete with such teams like Australia etc
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
FRAZ said:
They get a bat before a feeder and they play with natural ability .With natural hand and eye coordination . Try to get a biography of Miandad. Or try to learn the life of Yousaf Youhana. these guys just played on the streets . They did not come out of the rich academies .They played in the circumstances which were just.......... Ever imagined playing on a dirt road where carts and cars and bicycles are going all together. I myself have broken windows of my neighbour . This is called learning naturaly .
Natural talent . Desi Academy.....
I have played with legions of Asian cricketers and, as we travel a lot with my wifes job, had a lot of good times playing for all asian teams where Ive been the only white guy.

The one thing that is very noticable (that Ive discussed with my closest friends in cricket (all asian by the way but sensible)) is that many have a massive overestimation of their ability and talent. This is not one or 2 guys but a cultural phenomenon (sp?) that my closest friends recognise as well.

Lets start with tennis ball cricketers. Guys talk about how good they are and they play in organised leagues and they want to be recognised as good cricketers. Yet whenever, Ive played against such players they are RUBBISH. They have no frame of reference as to what being a good cricketer equals.

It got to the stage that I refused to play against them because they talked all the time about how good they were and then a 50 over game is over in 1 1/2 hrs after they get destroyed and everyones time is wasted.

Ive moved to leagues where everyone talks about how good the standard is and about how great a certain player is, and you know what? it is generally a very low standard that it is not worth playing in.

Also, this has happened too many times to even think about counting but only with Asian cricketers, guys have seen me bowl and then said something like "You are very fast but so-and-so at another club is just as fast" and they you play against that team or see them in the nets and the 'fast guy' is only bowling brisk medium pace. I've had a lot of apologies after Ive bowled in the same game as these supposed 'fast guys' from people who thought that he was quick. I used to take offense to people comapring me to every average cricketer that bowled quicker than the average dibbly-dobbler at another club.

Ive played in top divisions where I have had a captain come onto the field and ask the umpire to stop me bowling to a number 3 batsman as it was too fast and therefore intimidatory and not fair.

I have too many example to name here. The problem maybe that there are so many people in Asia that are passionate about cricket and play it that they only play locally and never get to play against really good players that are seperated by great distances and leagues and therefore never get to really appreciate where they are on the ability ladder.

Im certainly not saying Asians are not good cricketers, quite obviously there are many excellent players. What I am saying is that many Asian cricketers have a higher opinion of themselves than they deserve (could be a pride thing but in all honesty I dont pretend to know the reason). At least bad white cricketers know they are rubbish.
 
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FRAZ

International Captain
Goughy said:
I have played with legions of Asian cricketers and, as we travel a lot with my wifes job, had a lot of good times playing for all asian teams where Ive been the only white guy.

The one thing that is very noticable (that Ive discussed with my closest friends in cricket (all asian by the way but sensible)) is that many have a massive overestimation of their ability and talent. This is not one or 2 guys but a cultural phenomenon (sp?) that my closest friends recognise as well.

Lets start with tennis ball cricketers. Guys talk about how good they are and they play in organised leagues and they want to be recognised as good cricketers. Yet whenever, Ive played against such players they are RUBBISH. They have no frame of reference as to what being a good cricketer equals.

It got to the stage that I refused to play against them because they talked all the time about how good they were and then a 50 over game is over in 1 1/2 hrs after they get destroyed and everyones time is wasted.

Ive moved to leagues where everyone talks about how good the standard is and about how great a certain player is, and you know what? it is generally a very low standard that it is not worth playing in.

Ive played in top divisions where I have had a captain come onto the field and ask the umpire to stop me bowling to a number 3 batsman as it was too fast and therefore intimidatory and not fair.

I have too many example to name here. The problem maybe that there are so many people in Asia that are passionate about cricket and play it that they only play locally and never get to play against really good players that are seperated by great distances and leagues and therefore never get to really appreciate where they are on the ability ladder.

Im certainly not saying Asians are not good cricketers, quite obviously there are many excellent players. What I am saying is that many Asian cricketers have a higher opinion of themselves than they deserve (could be a pride thing but in all honesty I dont pretend to know the reason). At least bad white cricketers know they are rubbish.
I got your point my friend . See heroes are heroes . I mean I got to admitt and I have stated it many times that Indian media really makes stories more flashy . Pakistani fast bowlers are of sheer class and I bet that . I have seen academies too . I have been around in the world .I have played cricket too and I have seen great talent of fast bowling . Natural talent I know is sometimes quite a hard word to say as I see the sign boards saying "Jones is God " . " warnie is God " . And I also made a thread that "Are the other teams catching up to the Aussies or what ?"
I never said that Aussies talent is bad or whatever but am sayingthat appreciate the circumstances in which M Yousaf had to go through or Javed Miandad had to go through etc etc . I know what you mean and I totaly agree with you when I see some one making stupid threads saying "Agarkar this ,Agarkar that"? I never saw any one appreciating Wasim Akram as much as the guy deserved or Waqar Younis .................. I know that natural ability thing is over explained ... But thats how it is ... take it or leave it ... Its life you know ... Up some where .. Down at the other spot .............
Peace
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Dasa said:
Wouldn't want to generalise, would you?
I wouldnt generalise if it was not a general issue. Without a doubt it is FAR more prevelant in Asian cricketing culture than with any other group I have played with or against.
 

FRAZ

International Captain
Goughy said:
I wouldnt generalise if it was not a general issue. Without a doubt it is FAR more prevelant in Asian cricketing culture than with any other group I have played with or against.
I bet you have not been in Lahore then . I do not understand . I mean just go and check the fast bowling talent . Check the street cricket . Check how the betting is done . How well built and talented cricketers they are . I bet you haven't been there . Its a huge area i.e. South Asia . Just do not go to Andaman and Nicobar Islands to generalize the people . please
 

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