Shane Warne vs Curtly Ambrose

[subshakerz]

The cap fits.. right?
You were begging him to remove you from ignore list. You also quoted him multiple times, hoping for approval.

Um, no. I would be fine ignoring him too if he didn't keep referring to me constantly while putting me in ignore mode. Nobody asked him to unmute me either. Of course you wouldn't notice that, would you?

 

[Johan]

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I didn't mean you. You're one of best posters.

Agreed.

 

[The Sean]

His approval? HELL NO.

More like calling him out on double standards.

I didn't mean you. You're one of best posters.

Akilana/smali multi confirmed.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Anyway, looks like Warne has won. It was close, as it should be for these caliber of bowlers. I recall that when Warne himself was alive, he rated Ambrose 3rd amongst players from his time (behind Sachin and Lara).

 

[kyear2]

Maybe he thinks that Imran would average 26/27 at home without bottlecaps.

Not just the bottle caps, the umpires as well.

If during your bowling career you average 17 at home and 25 away (including SL of course), while you saw the need to introduce neutral umpires to "legitimize results", what do you think?

Have you ever read contemporary articles from the '82 series and those subsequent?

Miandad never got a lbw or close caught behind decision against him for a decade. Do we believe it only applies to him?

None of the other great bowlers form the era had the staggering home / away difference that he had. Well Waqar, but....

Now there are bowlers with differing numbers home and away.

Steyn, Murali, Ash etc.

But we know why. Steyn was in the flat era and had the most helpful conditions at home. Murali and Ash were bowlers with custom made home conditions as well.

But that isn't the case here, in fact Subz constantly tells us that Pakistan was one of the hardest places to succeed, well at least for travelling bowlers.

And there's also the pushed perception that none of this was real. It was just as bad everywhere. That's not nearly the case, and everyone back then knew what was going on. The joke was that Miandad couldn't be given out LBW in Pakistan, and don't let Imran hir you on the pads. Hard to do with it's reversing sideways after the ball had been prepared.

It's one thing to defend him, it's another to pretend that his home record was unquestionably clean. The gap existed for a reason.

 

[subshakerz]

Not just the bottle caps, the umpires as well.

If during your bowling career you average 17 at home and 25 away (including SL of course), while you saw the need to introduce neutral umpires to "legitimize results", what do you think?

Have you ever read contemporary articles from the '82 series and those subsequent?

Miandad never got a lbw or close caught behind decision against him for a decade. Do we believe it only applies to him?

None of the other great bowlers form the era had the staggering home / away difference that he had. ..

Now there are bowlers with differing numbers home and away.

Steyn, Murali, Ash etc.

But we know why. Steyn was in the flat era and had the most helpful conditions at home. Murali and Ash were bowlers with custom made home conditions as well.

But that isn't the case here, in fact Subz constantly tells us that Pakistan was one of the hardest places to succeed, well at least for travelling bowlers.

And there's also the pushed perception that none of this was real. It was just as bad everywhere. That's not nearly the case, and everyone back then knew what was going on. The joke was that Miandad couldn't be given out LBW in Pakistan, and don't let Imran hir you on the pads. Hard to do with it's reversing sideways after the ball had been prepared.

It's one thing to defend him, it's another to pretend that his home record was unquestionably clean. The gap existed for a reason.

Ok so then stop your BS and just don't give all these fake excuses about not being good enough in this country or that country or ignoring Warne against India, etc.

Just say he was a cheat and you rate him lower. We get it.

It's when you contort yourself to present his record as worse than it was that you embarass yourself and waste everyone's time.

 

[The Sean]

I wrote at length about Imran's away record in multiple posts several years ago in a discussion very similar to this. I won't write it all again now as it's been said before (they're in the archives I'm sure for anyone who wants to look them up), but in summary I think there is a lot more context and nuance to it than simply a career away average of 25. For a long period of his career, Imran was spectacularly good away from home, against virtually everyone.

 

[kyear2]

Anyway, looks like Warne has won. It was close, as it should be for these caliber of bowlers. I recall that when Warne himself was alive, he rated Ambrose 3rd amongst players from his time (behind Sachin and Lara).

And no issue with that.

I have both in the same tier and go back and forth and who's ahead.

 

[Johan]

I wrote at length about Imran's away record in multiple posts several years ago in a discussion very similar to this. I won't write it all again now as it's been said before (they're in the archives I'm sure for anyone who wants to look them up), but in summary I think there is a lot more context and nuance to it than simply a career away average of 25. For a long period of his career, Imran was spectacularly good away from home, against virtually everyone.

Imran's away record is what makes me rate him as a ATG at the first place.

 

[Prince EWS]

Imran's away record is what makes me rate him as a ATG at the first place.

Garner's batting is what makes me rate Imran as an ATG.

 

[kyear2]

I wrote at length about Imran's away record in multiple posts several years ago in a discussion very similar to this. I won't write it all again now as it's been said before (they're in the archives I'm sure for anyone who wants to look them up), but in summary I think there is a lot more context and nuance to it than simply a career away average of 25. For a long period of his career, Imran was spectacularly good away from home, against virtually everyone.

Everyone had good performances away from home, it was the consistency that Hadlee and Marshall both exhibited that he didn't...

And to add, the number I was using wasn't his entire career but rather the preferred time period of 74 - 88.

And again, if that was his overall averages, no one here is going through those numbers to say that he had good series in between, he wouldn't even be in this conversation.

There's a serous double standard that used for him that's literally ignored for everyone else.

Why?

Not to add the blatant and ridiculous levels of ball tampering and home umpiring that aided in those home numbers.

 

[Johan]

Garner's batting is what makes me rate Imran as an ATG.

Yeah the fact he managed to do so well against West Indies when they had Joel Garner batting for them is crazy.

 

[subshakerz]

I wrote at length about Imran's away record in multiple posts several years ago in a discussion very similar to this. I won't write it all again now as it's been said before (they're in the archives I'm sure for anyone who wants to look them up), but in summary I think there is a lot more context and nuance to it than simply a career away average of 25. For a long period of his career, Imran was spectacularly good away from home, against virtually everyone.

Yes. Actually I remember having an exchange with you about it years back.

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah the fact he managed to do so well against West Indies when they had Joel Garner batting for them is crazy.

Yeah not sure how anyone can see this video and not immediately conclude Imran is an ATG.

 

[Johan]

Yeah not sure how anyone can see this video and not immediately conclude Imran is an ATG.

lad really was out there to sent it to another planet

 

[subshakerz]

Everyone had good performances away from home, it was the consistency that Hadlee and Marshall both exhibited that he didn't...

And to add, the number I was using wasn't his entire career but rather the preferred time period of 74 - 88.

And again, if that was his overall averages, no one here is going through those numbers to say that he had good series in between, he wouldn't even be in this conversation.

There's a serous double standard that used for him that's literally ignored for everyone else.

Why?

Not to add the blatant and ridiculous levels of ball tampering and home umpiring that aided in those home numbers.

Dude you are the guy who was combing through the wickets he took against WI to argue he took too many tailenders and then said we should ignore Imran in WSC because it was too bowling friendly

Lol just admit you don't want to rate Imran high. It's ridiculous how much you are willing to contort yourself to make his record look bad.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Yeah not sure how anyone can see this video and not immediately conclude Imran is an ATG.

He is an atg nobody is debating that. For Kyear and me, tbh and a few others he comes after Ambrose and Steyn amongst fast bowlers. For me, he's the 3rd greatest cricketer after Sobers and Bradman. For Subz he's i assume, the 4th best pace bowler and I think he has Imran as something like the 5th best cricketer overall even after Sachin and Viv (which is absurd imo).

 

[subshakerz]

He is an atg nobody is debating that. For Kyear and me, tbh and a few others he comes after Ambrose and Steyn amongst fast bowlers. For me, he's the 3rd greatest cricketer after Sobers and Bradman. For Subz he's i assume, the 4th best pace bowler and I think he has Imran as something like the 5th best cricketer overall even after Sachin and Viv (which is absurd imo).

Imran is 5th best pacer for me, I have him after Steyn but ahead of Ambrose.

 

[Johan]

have Imran at 7th