Shane Warne vs Curtly Ambrose

[smash84]

Grace washes both of them or no

It isn't obvious to me that he does

 

[subshakerz]

Since this is something that has come up a few times recently and is an interesting topic I decided to save subz some time and I asked an AI. (the one I already had a cricket chat (namedrop) with)

What is the difference between greatest and best, in terms of athletes?

In the context of athletes, there's a nuanced difference between "greatest" and "best":


"Best" typically refers to peak performance, statistical achievements, and current skill level. It's more about immediate or technical prowess - who is currently the most skilled or performing at the highest level right now.


"Greatest" is a more comprehensive term that encompasses:

• Career achievements
• Long-term impact on the sport
• Historical significance
• Influence beyond just statistical performance
• Overcoming challenges
• Cultural and historical context
• Legacy and lasting influence

For example, in cricket:

• "Best" might be the current top-ranked player with the most recent impressive statistics
• "Greatest" would be someone like Sachin Tendulkar, who not only had incredible stats but transformed the sport in India, inspired generations, and had a massive cultural impact

In other sports, Michael Jordan is often considered the "greatest" basketball player, not just because of his skills, but because of how he changed the game, his global impact, and his cultural significance - even though current players might have better individual season stats.


So "greatest" is more about overall legacy and impact, while "best" is more about current or peak technical performance.

Yes. I agree.

 

[sayon basak]

Grace washes both of them or no

He does.

 

[sayon basak]

Yes. I agree.

Note those down. You don't want to be speechless the next time someone asks you about this.

 

[Coronis]

I don't disagree

I guess the most simplified way to define the difference between better and greater comes from athletics and swimming.

Pan Zhanle is obviously a better 100m freestyle swimmer than Alexandr Popov. Is he greater? No way José.

Plenty of modern sprinters are better than Carl Lewis or Maurice Greene? Are they greater? Nahh

 

[subshakerz]

So, going by the chatgpt definition, he essentially had it the other way around?

• Career achievements
• Long-term impact on the sport
• Historical significance
• Influence beyond just statistical performance
• Overcoming challenges
• Cultural and historical context
• Legacy and lasting influence

Seems to me that Imran ticks most of the boxes above ahead of Sachin?

Well Imran had more impact on cricket than Sachin objectively speaking but Sachins skill level in his specialist discipline is more exceptional to me and he had a higher peer/pundit rating which I also look at.

 

[subshakerz]

Note those down. You don't want to be speechless the next time someone asks you about this.

No it's not that I haven't thought this out but I didn't want to get into writing an essay because that's what it would take to justify my views and lay out my specific criteria.

 

[subshakerz]

I guess the most simplified way to define the difference between better and greater comes from athletics and swimming.

Pan Zhanle is obviously a better 100m freestyle swimmer than Alexandr Popov. Is he greater? No way José.

Plenty of modern sprinters are better than Carl Lewis or Maurice Greene? Are they greater? Nahh

Muhammad Ali is arguably the greatest sportsman ever. Best boxer ever? Maybe not.

 

[subshakerz]

I still didn't quite understand your distinction between "greatest" and "best". All I remember is you describing it as "somewhat amorphous concept " which loosely translates to you "don't know ****".

No it just means that at the end of evaluating criteria there are still intangibles as well that go into greatness. It's not as straightforward as saying who had the best record. It's not that hard to grasp this idea.

 

[Coronis]

Muhammad Ali is arguably the greatest sportsman ever. Best boxer ever? Maybe not.

Yeah obviously its different for each sport but on a superficial level at least better could be considered best statistically and greater would combine other things with stats. Oftentimes greatest and best do crossover. Sometimes they don’t.

 

[sayon basak]

Muhammad Ali is arguably the greatest sportsman ever.

No he's not.

 

[Johan]

No he's not.

He has a good argument to be.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Well Imran had more impact on cricket than Sachin objectively speaking but Sachins skill level in his specialist discipline is more exceptional to me and he had a higher peer/pundit rating which I also look at.

I don't see how he's exceptional. The number of tests he played is it. What else?

 

[smash84]

No he's not.

ARGUABLY he is

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah obviously its different for each sport but on a superficial level at least better could be considered best statistically and greater would combine other things with stats. Oftentimes greatest and best do crossover. Sometimes they don’t.

Precisely my point.

 

[subshakerz]

I don't see how he's exceptional. The number of tests he played is it. What else?

Teen prodigy. Technically the greatest too IMO. Insane longevity of worldclass performance. And just the achievement of being the best bat after Bradman in an insanely crowded field.

 

[smash84]

Teen prodigy. Technically the greatest too IMO. Insane longevity of worldclass performance. And just the achievement of being the best bat after Bradman in an insanely crowded field.

The teen prodigy part isn't really true though.

 

[subshakerz]

The teen prodigy part isn't really true though.

What do you consider a prodigy?

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Teen prodigy. Technically the greatest too IMO. Insane longevity of worldclass performance. And just the achievement of being the best bat after Bradman in an insanely crowded field.

Him being the best after batsman is highly debatable and even with that, it's only batting. Cricket = batting, bowling fielding. Sobers combines all three the best then Imran ,Kallis etc. Bradman is of course incomparable. Anyway Imran>Sachin. Moving on...

 

[smash84]

What do you consider a prodigy?

Someone who has prodigious amounts of output.

IIRC he wasn't very productive when he was a teen. He had potential but he wasn't really performing in the first couple of years. I cbf looking that up.