Shane Warne vs Curtly Ambrose

[kyear2]

You've claimed in the past that multiple posters have ganged up on you. There is a very strong reason for that. Your refusal to address valid points is just part of why you get so much **** thrown your way. Constant regurgitation of garbage which adds nothing to the discussion is another reason.

There were about 4 of you, and it only adds nothing if you have the mindset that you prefer to be in a state of constant denial.

I did address your points.

And yes, it is **** that's generally thrown.

 

[kyear2]

Well, it seems you've maybe tried to answer the question but i do not understand anything here. Where is Steyn coming from ?

What impressive feats make Ambrose in particular, competitive with the spinners but don't make Imran competitive with the spinners?

You're making this way more complicated than it has to be.

Steyn was introduced as I was placing the players into tiers as to illustrate where they are ranked in comparison to each other.

Ambrose destroyed the best team of his era. Not only at home, but over his entire career.

His home and away records mostly match, there are no questions with regards to Ambrose with regards to the legitimacy of any part of his record.

No one says he's not competitive, just think he's behind.

I have Ambrose in the same tier as the spinners and it's arguable if he's ahead or behind.

I don't have Imran in that tier. Think he fits in more with Donald, Lillee, Holding, Wasim etc.

 

[Prince EWS]

Sooo that bit about Dev (yes I'm butt hurt) he said a few weeks ago isn't troll worthy? And that's one in the list of other stupid comments.

Dumb posts aren't necessarily trolling. Sometimes people just have dumb opinions.

 

[smash84]

You're making this way more complicated than it has to be.

Steyn was introduced as I was placing the players into tiers as to illustrate where they are ranked in comparison to each other.

Ambrose destroyed the best team of his era. Not only at home, but over his entire career.

His home and away records mostly match, there are no questions with regards to Ambrose with regards to the legitimacy of any part of his record.

No one says he's not competitive, just think he's behind.

I have Ambrose in the same tier as the spinners and it's arguable if he's ahead or behind.

I don't have Imran in that tier. Think he fits in more with Donald, Lillee, Holding, Wasim etc.

No, I am not making this complicated at all. Imran's record against the bset team of his era is stellar. Heck, his WPM against the WI in WI is even more impressive than Ambrose's WPM against Australia in Australia. It's better than Steyn's performance against the best team of his era.

Can you remind me what Warne's performance is like against the best players of spin of his era?

So yeah, I don't see how he's behind Warne, given the criteria you are using.

You just want to hate on certain players for nothing and this shows.

 

[sayon basak]

Dumb posts aren't necessarily trolling. Sometimes people just have dumb opinions.

Like Lillee>Hoggard?

 

[Prince EWS]

Like Lillee>Hoggard?

Exactly. Or Gooch>Sibanda.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Dumb posts aren't necessarily trolling. Sometimes people just have dumb opinions.

Fair.

 

[subshakerz]

No, I am not making this complicated at all. Imran's record against the bset team of his era is stellar. Heck, his WPM against the WI in WI is even more impressive than Ambrose's WPM against Australia in Australia. It's better than Steyn's performance against the best team of his era.

Can you remind me what Warne's performance is like against the best players of spin of his era?

So yeah, I don't see how he's behind Warne, given the criteria you are using.

You just want to hate on certain players for nothing and this shows.

He still is avoiding the conversation on Warne. Perhaps remind him he rated Imran better than Warne just a short while go.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

No, I am not making this complicated at all. Imran's record against the bset team of his era is stellar. Heck, his WPM against the WI in WI is even more impressive than Ambrose's WPM against Australia in Australia. It's better than Steyn's performance against the best team of his era.

Can you remind me what Warne's performance is like against the best players of spin of his era?

So yeah, I don't see how he's behind Warne, given the criteria you are using.

You just want to hate on certain players for nothing and this shows.

I have to ask, do you agree with Subz that Sachin is a better/greater than Imran? And if yes why? Because it's clear as day to me than Imrans better.

 

[subshakerz]

I have to ask, do you agree with Subz that Sachin is a better/greater than Imran? And if yes why? Because it's clear as day to me than Imrans better.

I already said Imran is better based on record. We were arguing greatness.

And Smash84 doesn't agree which is fine we don't have to for everything

 

[smash84]

I have to ask, do you agree with Subz that Sachin is a better/greater than Imran? And if yes why? Because it's clear as day to me than Imrans better.

Of course, I don't agree with subz on this. I rate Imran as the GOAT after Bradman, so......

I think he himself isn't clear on what he means by "best" or "greatest" so its not a surprise that his rankings seem a bit muddled.

 

[subshakerz]

Of course, I don't agree with subz on this. I rate Imran as the GOAT after Bradman, so......

I think he himself isn't clear on what he means by "best" or "greatest" so its not a surprise that his rankings seem a bit muddled.

Well greatness is a bit amorphous as I said. Skill level plus peer/pundit rep plus legacy.

Imran is clearly better on record.

 

[smash84]

Well greatness is a bit amorphous as I said.

So you agree you don't know what you are talking about?

 

[subshakerz]

So you agree you don't know what you are talking about?

No.

 

[kyear2]

No, I am not making this complicated at all. Imran's record against the bset team of his era is stellar. Heck, his WPM against the WI in WI is even more impressive than Ambrose's WPM against Australia in Australia. It's better than Steyn's performance against the best team of his era.

Can you remind me what Warne's performance is like against the best players of spin of his era?

So yeah, I don't see how he's behind Warne, given the criteria you are using.

You just want to hate on certain players for nothing and this shows.

As I just said in another thread.

Using the time works that Subzie is suggesting we use for Imran averaged a ridiculous 17 at home.

Away from the comfort and advantages of home, from 1974 to 1988 Imran Khan maintained an average of 25 and a strike rate of 56.

Shane Warne, over his entire career away from home averaged 25 while sticking every 56 deliveries.

The one advantage that pacers have over spinners is that the average less, strike faster and are better suited to take out the top order. Outside of that spinner have the advantage of longer spells and assisting with the o/r.

Again I'll say, Imran didn't even offer those advantages.

Away from home, or just transported into the modern game today, where's his advantage?

When faced with neutral conditions, Imran basically had the same level of penetration as Warne, while having an identical average.

So yes, I rate Warne higher, and easily.

 

[smash84]

As I just said in another thread.

Using the time works that Subzie is suggesting we use for Imran averaged a ridiculous 17 at home.

Away from the comfort and advantages of home, from 1974 to 1988 Imran Khan maintained an average of 25 and a strike rate of 56.

Shane Warne, over his entire career away from home averaged 25 while sticking every 56 deliveries.

The one advantage that pacers have over spinners is that the average less, strike faster and are better suited to take out the top order. Outside of that spinner have the advantage of longer spells and assisting with the o/r.

Again I'll say, Imran didn't even offer those advantages.

Away from home, or just transported into the modern game today, where's his advantage?

When faced with neutral conditions, Imran basically had the same level of penetration as Warne, while having an identical average.

So yes, I rate Warne higher, and easily.

I used your simple criteria that you used to praise Ambrose to show how good Imran was. Now you shift your goal posts as usual, never giving a straight answer.

I asked you a simple question. You gave me your usual garbage. I'll ask again,

What did Warne average against the best spin playing team of his time?

 

[subshakerz]

When faced with neutral conditions, Imran basically had the same level of penetration as Warne, while having an identical average.

So yes, I rate Warne higher, and easily.

That doesn't make any sense. So even if you assume they are equal away (they aren't because Imran wasn't smashed by the best team faced) Imran is far better at home by your own admission.

 

[sayon basak]

That doesn't make any sense. So even if you assume they are equal away (they aren't because Imran wasn't smashed by the best team faced) Imran is far better at home by your own admission.

Maybe he thinks that Imran would average 26/27 at home without bottlecaps.

 

[smash84]

Maybe he thinks that Imran would average 26/27 at home without bottlecaps.

Well, then he should just say that he doesn't rate Imran because he thinks Imran was a cheat. Why try to act as if he has any real argument for where he ranks Imran?

 

[subshakerz]

Maybe he thinks that Imran would average 26/27 at home without bottlecaps.

Then he should just be open about it because that is the heart of why he doesn't rate Imran.

Instead he has to go through these BS stat hoops.